Comparison Test: 2009 Toyota Prius vs. 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI

Hate to bring this up again and get into another long discussion with Bob, but we took a 2009 TDI wagon on a 2000 mile drive and got 66.6mpg, loaded with 3-4 people and cargo. Hills or tailwinds had nothing to do with that result.

 

To all that have posted comments on this thread, I am a current 2008 pkg 6 Prius owner and love the car.. Also, I am a new owner of a 2009 VW Jetta TDI diesel.. So, what I am about to say is from personal experience.. I find it very interesting to see the responses from Prius owners who have probably never driven the 09 VW Jetta TDI.. That's not to say that there aren't some of you out there that may have driven a TDI or like me have both vechicles in your household.. I beleive that both cars have their merit and will serve their owners well... To those of you who don't believe that the TDI can get high 40''s to low 50's mpg, well it can... I have averaged combined city and highway( a little more highway than city) driving mgp to be approx 45 mpg.. If I am doing more city driving, I will average approx high 30's to low 40's mpg. For strickly highway - 48 to low 50 mpg.. I live in central PA and have to contend with many hills so it is not flat road driving for either car.. My drive to work is 40 miles of highway for either the Prius or the Jetta depending on which one I use.. Now moving to my 08 Prius.. I average combined city / highway approx 46 to 48 mpg.. Since I have had my Prius, this is about what it will do for mpg performance. That is not to say that it doesn't get low 50's at times... Both vehicles have good features and somethings that could be improved... Not having driven the Prius Gen III, I cannot comment on how it performs or would compare to the TDI but my hunch is it is not that much better than Gen II from what I have read in this chat forum... I will say from a quality consideration, the VW is a better built car than the Prius.. Just appears to be more rugged with better constructions.. For starters, the seats are much more comfortable and its road handling performance is much better than the Prius.. As mentioined in the Edmunds article, you get more bang for your buck with the VW vs the Prius.. This would relate to cost of the vehicle $$$ and associated features.... I am in an interesting position as I own both vehicles and like them very much.. My wife drives the Prius more than me but I get my fair share of driving with the Prius.... All I would say to my fellow Prius owners is be careful about commenting on the VW TDI if you do not have any first hand experience with it.. It is a very good car in many ways as is the Prius... I don't at all intend for this to be preaching from the bully pulpit but rather to just let you hear some comments from one who owns both.. I found this thread a very interesting subject to read... Good Luck with your Prius's!!!!

 

That is great! But without hypermiling, here are 2,000 miles with my 2003 Prius:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4
0	date	miles	gallons	MPG
1	3-Jun-06	158	2	79.0
2	31-Jul-06	299	3.9	76.7
3	16-Jun-06	530	7.2	73.6
4	3-Jun-06	733	10.2	71.9
5	11-Aug-06	948	13.4	70.7
6	8-Oct-08	1149	16.4	70.1
7	13-Jul-06	1293	18.6	69.5
8	12-May-06	1474	21.4	68.9
9	15-May-06	1657	24.2	68.5
10	9-Nov-05	1802	26.4	68.3
11	12-Nov-06	1960	28.9	67.8
12	21-Apr-06	2099	31.1	67.5[/B]

So the Jetta still came in about 1 MPG low.

'Cherry picking' data doesn't tell anyone a dang thing about our respective rides. Rather it suggests a deliberate attempt to mislead and obscure the actual vehicle specifications and is all but useless.

Almost as useless is what I've been getting with my NHW11:

52.1 MPG over 70,000 miles
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That has pretty well been my mileage since the first, full year of ownership. It includes highway, city, summer and winter driving in the Tennessee Valley. It also agrees with the high-side of the original EPA ratings 52 City and 45 Highway. This is just driving the car based upon the vehicle characteristics combined with the happy accident of living in a warm climate with many Prius friendly routes. But this single vehicle records is still no way to get useful information about the NHW11 model Prius.

The credible reports are those that do a vehicle-to-vehicle, identical set of tests:

• EPA mileage tests
• EPA site user reports
• Edmunds "smack down"

These apples-to-apples reports have merit, more so than either my individual vehicle, my 'cherry picked' trips, or your single trip. Let's get real and investigate the real vehicle performance characteristics instead of easily misleading, anecdotal reports. When you're ready, we can go over the methodology.

Bob Wilson

 

The average mileage for a set of vehicles often has a Gaussian distribution with variations above and below the average. What is false is to claim someone who gets a one-time high mileage as that will be the performance everyone gets.

The user reports under each make and model at the EPA web site appear to be fairly accurate and more so when there are more than a dozen reports. The user reported mileage becomes more accurate as the number of user reports increase.

Everyone has different sets of requirements and vehicles must meet the individual family's needs. For example, we've already seen at least one case of someone who found the 2010 Prius seats unusable. So he sold the vehicle and we all wished him well. For many reasons, the Prius may not be for everyone.

If we are going to advocate for our respective rides, let's make a fair comparison. Then let the individual requirements and actual vehicle characteristics drive purchasing decisions.

Bob Wilson

 

To bwilson4web... I believe I understand the basis of your response... I did not mean to infer that the numbers I received thus far for both vehicles is the average for all.. Yes, there are too many variables that can contribute to ones ave mpg, above or below the average... I agree that we all have different sets of requirements when it comes to a vehicle.. However, I did want to point out that thus far with my driving habits-technique, I am getting the numbers I stated... The point here is to advise those who may have doubts that it is possible to get good milage in a TDI..

 

Please report back during the winter how TDI is doing as well. I would love to see how the two rack up in the winter.

BTW, how do you deal with the Diesel engine idling annoyance at the stop lights?

 

usbseawolf2000, I will try to remember to post an answer to your question during the winter ie.. performance... From what I have been told by those that own a diesel car, the diesel engine will get better milage in colder weather unlike the Prius which gets better mpg performance in warmer weather. I will have to wait a few months to find out..
To answer your parting question, I deal fine wtih the engile idle. It is rather quiet as a diesel goes.. There is a subtle sound of the diesel engine at idle but nothing that is annoying or unbearable.. It is actually rather quiet.. This is how I understood your question but not sure if you were talking about something else? I know the TDI is not like my Prius which shuts down at a stop but I realize that they are different technology.. I accept each for what they are... Cheers....

 

It would be more effective to cite a credible source like the EPA:

31.1
33.6
36.5
37.4
37.7
38.0
38.2
39.0
40.3
40.6
41.1
42.6
43.1
47.8
49.0
57.0
​

This is just the user reported, mileage records from one Jetta TDI model. It is fairly simple to convert this and other TDI data into a distribution curve showing what folks are getting. This is a credible source. <wink>

Bob Wilson

 

Are you speaking of imperial MPG?

How can you justify 66.6 MPG in a TDI wagon, loaded? Show data please.

 

I don't doubt the TDI is fun to drive. I sat in one with 'leather' and the front seats were sublime. But, the Gen3 front seats are now also very, very good.

That is some really good mileage you report in highway and combined.

The Prius really starts to shine in urban driving. Even the freeway can leave one in slow and go during commutes - Prius electric drive kicks in and punts the car along on battery.

Still, I don't compare hatchbacks to sedans much. Not feasible to put a set of drums in cases into a small sedan (TDI), but I heard VW makes a few TDI wagons.

Reliability - Consumer Reports - insufficient data for 4/5 years on a regular Jetta, much worse than avg. on Passat, no history on Rabbit, Touareg MWTA ....

VW would need solid reliability ratings to capture my interest.

 

bwilson4web.. What does citing the EPA have to do with the mpg performance I get with my TDI or Prius? Are you stating that the ave numbers I have been getting are not true? You sound like a academic who likes statistics and that is all well and fine... However, there is a point of getting overly anal with all of this.. Let me ask you a question.. Do you rely on the EPA numbers for the Pruis or do you rely more on the actual numbers you get... Which is a more reliable and credible source? Wink back at Ya....

 

No, those are U.S. gallons.

Reviews and fuel logs are posted on CleanMPG. This whole thing has already been hashed out here in PriusChat, no need to repeat.

 

Bwilson is often like that. He is highly partisan towards Prius and won't be satisfied until you replace your TDI with a second Prius.

 

cycledrum: I guess a hatchback design better suites your needs... I find that with my Prius, I can utilize the hatch features when needed (for bigger items - no drums)... Also, with the TDI there is a fairly good volume of room in the trunk and you can drop the rear seats if needed... Enjoy your 09 pkg 5... I am enjoying my 08 pkg 6... And my TDI.

 

fuzzy1 - Thanks for the info about bwilson... Well, I must say that the next Prius I get will be a replacement for my current 08 when the lease is up in 2011.. I will be a Toyota - VW household for some years to come... Cheers....

 

Thanks, fuzzy1. Those are indeed US gallons.

cycledrum -- Consumer Reports gives the 2009 Jetta a predicted reliability rating of average, and the Rabbit is predicted as above average.

usbseawolf2000 -- I was hoping to meet you at Hybridfest. You seem like you would be really interesting to talk with. About the diesel idling at a stop: We TDI drivers just get used to it and after a while it doesn't bother us. A short story about my parents' Highlander Hybrid (yes, I do like hybrids too and really pushed them to get it ). When I first experienced it shut down at a stop, it felt like a small earthquake. I thought that I would much rather deal with my engine idling than the shudder every time the HiHy's engine turns on and off. Guess what? I got used to that behavior too, and it doesn't bother me any more. Moral of the story: Most cars probably do something that people unfamiliar with it would find annoying. Diesel drivers, hybrid drivers, whatever, we all get used to and start to enjoy our cars' quirks in the end.

FWIW, I often end up in the mid-40's mpgUS during our long and cold Winnipeg winter. I do have an extra powerful block heater though and that really helps cut fuel consumption during warm up.

Hi Bob, I think you're confused on the correct definition of hypermiling. It means to exceed the EPA rating of a vehicle. So by the official definition, you were indeed hypermiling

I am not cherry picking anything or trying to mislead anybody. Doing so does not benefit me in any way. If I wanted to do so, I could cherry pick some better segments than 66.6 mpg. cycledrum did not seem to think 58mpg in a 2009 TDI was possible. My only intent was to show that much more is possible out of that car.

Here's what I know: Wayne at CleanMPG has driven a 2010 Prius and 2009 Jetta TDI for long highway drives. According to him, the TDI is at least as capable, in terms of miles per gallon, as the Prius when driven on the highway. Until somebody else takes both cars out and finds out what they are capable of, that is what I know and stick to. We all know that the Prius decimates all in the city.

 

I think it's great that you achieved 66.6 US MPG on your road trip.

I would be quite interested to see what a clean diesel full hybrid 'could do'.

---------------

That said, I prefer statistics on average fuel economy for city/highway/combined/year around driving. I've noticed manufacturers advertise 'highway fuel economy!' when the vast majority of drivers experience 'combined' driving.

 

Official? Remember, I was there when it was coined and know the true origins. That is not even close to what it originally meant... and I would say it still doesn't... since normal driving in a 2010 Prius will achieve that.
.

 

There are two sets of EPA numbers:

• vehicle testing - yes
• user reports - yes

These numbers often are different but they provide useful insights. For example, the original EPA numbers for my 03 Prius were 52 City and 45 Highway. My first fill-up was 39 MPG, which meant I was not driving the EPA profile. So I subsequently tested different speeds and came up with this chart:

By simply cruising at 65 mph, my subsequent highway mileage became 52 MPG and significantly improved my mileage over 70,000 miles. I simply drove at efficient Prius speeds and avoided the bad ones.

So then I used the old GreenHybrid database and began to study individual mileage records. I soon learned that mileage is often an accident of location and usage. This in turn led to a number of experiments that gave insights to the actual vehicle performance.


Understand that individual data points are nice to have but if one wants to understand the vehicle, a single point is not enough. If one wants to help others achieve similar performance, publish and share these characteristics. Then others can do the same ... or even better if their driving profile and environment supports it.

Bob Wilson

 

Only the facts and data are "highly partisan." I'm simply sharing reality. I don't mind if a TDI advocate comes to share their anecdotal data as long as they understand there is no 'free pass.'

Actually I don't care what others drive but what is the reason the TDI advocates come to the 'house of Prius?' Coming here to post suggests they won't be happy until we pour ashes over our heads and wear sack cloths in mourning for having bought these 'terrible Prius' that can't even get '66 MPG on a 2,000 mile trip.' To which I reply with this chart:

For our Canadian friends, 50 mph = 80 kph. My understanding about Canadian speed limits is:

Most 2-lane highways outside cities & towns 80 kph 50 mph
​

Alors, this speed corresponds with 66 MPG in a 2010 Prius.

So where is the equivalent Jetta TDI MPH vs MPG chart?

Bob Wilson