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Nissan EV is about to be officially announced!

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Indyking, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. bluetwo

    bluetwo Relevance is irrelevant

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    I am 100% sure that we will see coal-fired electricity production go down, for one because we'll run out and two, because solar and wind power are on the rise at an astonishing rate.

    Granted, I know that currently all of the aternative fuels in the world don't even look like an inch compared to the miles that represent fossil fuels BUT when it comes to alternatives the last thing we need is more naysayers.
     
  2. hampdenwireless

    hampdenwireless Active Member

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    Well wind production is growing quickly, solar maybe as a percentage but its so small currently solar growth is not a factor in overall electricity usage.

    We are not even close to running out of coal. We will be digging up coal (and polluting the air) well after we are out of oil.

    Even this pessimistic article talks about a plateau (not a peak!) in 2025. Others state hundreds of years of supply remaining with the truth being somewhere in between.

    Coal Supply May Be Vastly Overestimated: Discovery News

    Coal powered electric cars are still nearly as clean (as measured at the coal plant smokestack) as the cleanest cars on the road.
     
  3. bluetwo

    bluetwo Relevance is irrelevant

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    Lets just say wind and solar DO become a factor in electric usage, to the degree that demand for coal lessens, what then? Could there be a ripple effect? Or is it completely impossible to do?
     
  4. 1SMUGLEX

    1SMUGLEX I love the smug!

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    Great job Nissan!!!!
     
  5. Philosophe

    Philosophe 2010 Prius owner

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    I don't think I am, but I sometimes like to play the devils advocate. :p I think it is still true that many think that an electric car automatically means it is zero emission; as if electricity grows in trees ;) (not yet at least!).

    As some have pointed out, you have to check how your electricity is produced to know whether it is or not a good idea to invest into an electric car.

    I also like to believe that things are changing. I will follow closely developments in carbon nanotube capacitor batteries (resolving the 100 years old problem with battery autonomy) and efficient solar panels (free cost-efficient renewable energy). For the latter, two recent developments are promising: a newly researched surface that can take any angle incoming light and focus it on the solar panel itself and research on solar panels that can be many times as efficient as what is currently available (getting us from something around 12% (?) efficiency to something close to photosynthesis efficiency).

    I think the future will be solar. When you think about it, all energy resources we have come from the sun, except nuclear (wind, petrol, tides, etc.). Time will tell...

    Very interesting. Do you have any reference on this? In a CO2 exchange economy, this would be an easy thing to figure out but we are not there yet... I would be very glad to be wrong about my argument that an electric car in a coal based grid is a bad thing. :)
     
  6. bgdrewsif

    bgdrewsif New Member

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    I'll take a Leaf in red... now please... Would I be able to trade in a 50MPG prius as a "clunker" someday??? (Now that would be a good day when 50 mpg is 'clunker'!)
     
  7. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Next time ask your questions first before making statements that are wrong, as if you are informed.

    Go to calcars.org for a tutorial
     
  8. priusuk2008

    priusuk2008 New Member

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    Well this car has taken a LEAF out of a lot of other manufacturers books. GM, where's your Volt ? Toyota, that PHEV model needs dusting off and re-looking at. VW/Audi, BlueMotion is fine but its not the real thing. BMW, just because you can turn the engine off whilst idling doesn't make for a really fuel efficient car like this LEAF (given that electricity costs something, there is a cost to travel those 100 miles, even though it is small).

    Having read through the debates on this topic, I can only agree with those who believe this car is the way forward (for now). I would happily trade my Prius for a LEAF as my daily commute is less than 30 miles. For longer trips (assuming no immediate infrastructure is in place) public transportation or daily hire are good alternatives. For example I only live 80 miles from London, but I would always catch a train there (45 minutes) versus driving in that chaotic environment (my best is 2 hours trip) and having to find somewhere to park (congestion charge free of course).

    I love my Prius, but when the time comes to change it, this car will definitely get some serious study. By that time, some of the other manufacturers will hopefully have caught up (Pleeez Toyota) and could have better products, like 200+ miles before charge.

    Personally I think the first electric car that can get 400 miles before a recharge (and maybe more hyper-gliding or whatever) will be the first mainstream electric car because at that range it will emulate the fill-ups of a normal car. Even with say a 10 to 15 minute recharge time on the road, this would not be a deal-breaker, just an excuse to drink more coffee :)
     
  9. hampdenwireless

    hampdenwireless Active Member

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    Yes:
    STUDY: Even with electricity from coal, electric vehicles beat gas in CO2 emissions — Autoblog Green

    Of course that is factoring 100% coal. While I do not think coal use in the USA will drop quickly, oil and natural gas use for electric will slowly be replaced by nuclear and wind.
     
  10. SuperMPG

    SuperMPG New Member

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    Oregon is another big hydroelectric state. 80% of energy comes from hydro, 12% from nuclear, only 7% from coal. In California, <1% energy is from coal. New York State, 10% coal. Vermont and Hawaii, ZERO per cent energy is from coal, and so on. I don't want to bore people with all these numbers, but the point is there are many places in the country where EVs make a lot of environmental sense.
     
  11. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    OK. It says...
    "Every kWh from a coal plant produces two pounds of CO2, so we're talking 1.2 trillion pounds of CO2. The U.S. burned 3.3 billion barrels of gasoline in 2008, and a single gallon becomes 20 pounds of CO2 at the exhaust pipe"

    Nissan Leaf runs 100miles using 24kWh, which means it emits 0.48 lbs/mile CO2.
    Prius runs 50mpg, which means Prius emits 0.40 lbs/mile CO2.

    For me, it looks Prius is cleaner than coal powered EV.

    Ken@Japan
     
  12. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Which is silly because even if the Prius battery went belly up after 100K miles and you had to spend $2200 to by a new one rather than go with a good used one for fraction of the new cost, you'd still be ahead just from maintenance cost savings alone before you even figure in fuel cost savings.
     
  13. bluetwo

    bluetwo Relevance is irrelevant

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    Seriously?... I mean are you sure you got it right? Not trying to doubt you but I haven't read it. :D

    Then again hybrids make up a very, very small amount of the cars out there even though they've risen a lot. So an EV, even one less efficient than the Leaf, could still conceivably be cleaner than most SUV's.
     
  14. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Are you following this thread?

    I'm commenting to hampdenwireless's post.
    Hope you know the differences between the most SUV's and the cleanest cars.
    Ken@Japan
     
  15. bluetwo

    bluetwo Relevance is irrelevant

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    I have been following this thread enough to know you haven't been posting in it. Follow the thread and you'll see I have a lot of intelligent posts in it.

    I'll make my post more simple for you. I was simply saying, wow what you're saying is the difference between the pollution an EV makes and what's made by the Prius isn't that great when you look at it that way. Since you missed it, I was paying your research a compliment and thanking you for doing the reading for others. I didn't look it up myself because my internet connection is slow.
     
  16. Indyking

    Indyking Happy Hyundai owner...

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    I do also have faith on solar energy... but solar by itself is nothing unless converted to electricity....

    Let's face it. EV is a way better alternative than gas powered vehicles... If we get to the point of mass production of EVs, there will be a huge push for technology to produce green electricity (from solar for instance). We don’t have to go far to find places that are already using green sources of electricity like hydroelectric or wind power. It's just a heck easier to find ways to produce green electricity than green oil cars.
     
  17. Indyking

    Indyking Happy Hyundai owner...

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    Here is some important info I got directly from Nissan Leaf customer support (yes, they already set up one!):

    In order to get 220V outlets in the garage to charge the Leaf, prospective owners will have the option of having a authorized electrician install a "Leaf electric kit" in their garages (can't remember the exact name of this) that will cost about $500 installed. This equipment will allow charging in 8 hours or less and will surge protect your car and your house.

    How about cost? They said that considering a cost rate of $0.11 per Kw/h (national average I think), running the Leaf will be equivalent of paying 0.66 per gallon of gas in a fuel efficient vehicle.
     
  18. Indyking

    Indyking Happy Hyundai owner...

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    Gosh... what a inaccurate conclusion! Your math considers that every kw of electricity in the US is coal derived which is plain WRONG! 49.8% of electricity in the US (less than half) is generated by burning coal, so, mate, your point here is useless, sorry! And remember, like discussed before, finding 100% green sources of electricity is not that difficult and many places in the US already have it! The Prius, in the other hand, will ALWAYS use non-renewable oil and be on the mercy of foreign oil market!
     
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  19. hampdenwireless

    hampdenwireless Active Member

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    That logic is flawed. You are taking the co2 emissions from the tailpipe of the Prius only which is quite unfair. Electric cars reduce TOTAL co2 emissions from the entire process of making and delivering the energy. Just the process of moving the gas from the refinery to the station and running the gas station (its electricity) brings the co2 of the prius over .48lbs/mile.

    While I think coal is the WORST way of making energy for the environment most of the coal is dug up in PA and much of it is burned nearby. The rest is shipped by highly efficient trains. Half of the oil we used has traveled halfway around the world to get to us, then it has to be refined which is a huge point of inefficiency and co2 emissions.

    The Leaf has very similar energy use per mile to the Tesla (within 20%). See below how the Tesla blows away the Prius in total well to wheel efficiency. I have not seen a link with that data for the Leaf as its just too new. Maybe in a few weeks.

    Tesla Motors - well-to-wheel
     
  20. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

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    Is that the cost of electricity alone or the cost of electricity plus the battery lease?