1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Advice

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by theowl, Jul 17, 2009.

Page 3 of 4
  1. TKY

    TKY Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    232
    25
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Jabber,

    Rick Flashman is correct. You might want to be careful saying, or writing "Nothing is binding when it is spoken" because under contract law there are some goods or services, under a specified value, where a verbal agreement can be a binding contract.

    Consult an attorney who practices contract law.

    TK
     
    #41 TKY, Jul 21, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  2. eglmainz

    eglmainz New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    887
    141
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland, IL
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    At the end of the day, regardless of the mistakes made by the dealer in indicating that there would be no sales tax, this does not sound like a scam to me. I know that (generally) State laws would require the tax, and that no contract (even in writing) could bypass that, if the tax is required by law.

    That said, most contracts will also include a clause which states something along the lines of 'if one clause in the contract is determined invalid, the contract will remain in force'. This means that this reason alone is not enough to break the lease.

    However, if he also has the contract addendum that Jabber's finance office folks made us sign, if the least is not accepted, which does allow both parties to simply walk away from the deal.

    But just because they agreed to no sales tax does not exempt the buyer (or lessor) to avoid the taxes. If they did, every salesperson would use that as a ploy to buy from them. Regardless of who needs to pay the state taxes, they will be paid. If not by the buyer, then by the next buyer. (granted, if converted to a sale, there would be no taxes.
     
    #42 eglmainz, Jul 21, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  3. hawkmoon77

    hawkmoon77 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    233
    162
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    If this type of mistake was made, your lease is probably void by them, the disadvantaged party. That means that you would have to give the car back and get your money back...

    Now for the good news. They would be getting a used car back. Theoretically, that means it should be worth less. How much less? Maybe enough to release it to you at a fair price.

    I would point out to them that cancelling the lease would leave them with a used car, and they would have to disclose that to new cutomers. You might be able to use that in the negotiations.
     
    #43 hawkmoon77, Jul 21, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  4. jay_man2

    jay_man2 jay_man_also

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    1,246
    144
    0
    Location:
    Manassas, VA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    In Virginia, if the vehicle were never titled, which it seems it hasn't been, it would still be considered a new car, and could be sold as a new car even with some number of miles on it. I think there may be a mileage cutoff, but it's in the low thousands of miles.
     
    #44 jay_man2, Jul 21, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  5. Jabber

    Jabber Chicagoland Prius Guy

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    703
    213
    2
    Location:
    Chicago
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Rick, I'll agree with your statement against the "Nothing is binding when it is spoken" rule. There will always be certain instances when it is applicable. In this situation, nothing either party can say would be binding. Again, assuming nobody is recording anything, or there are no witnesses. Just a he said/she said scenario. Thanks for pointing that out to me TKY.

    EGL, the tax issue does not void the contract via the exact verbage you used. Something catastrophic has to happen. Such as changing the terms or price. That is enough to break the contract on either side.

    Hawkmoon77, even though he took possession of the vehicle, since the entire deal from the start is wrong, the vehicle does not yet have a title. So, it may have 300 miles on it, but ti is still considered used. And, even if the dealer couldn't back out the title work, there is no way Owl could turn it in and then turn around and buy it for a used price. Everyone would do that if that were true.

    Jayman2, every state varies on that law. In Michigan (I believe), if you turn a vehicle into a demo, it must be titled from day one. In Illinois, we can put 19,000 miles on it and not title it. To go one step further though, every manufacturer is different in regards to miles. Most say that after 7,500 miles, you no longer receive the incentives for that car, titled or not. That is why you rarely see a demo with more than 6k miles on it.
     
    #45 Jabber, Jul 21, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  6. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    89
    5
    0
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Thanks for all the new suggestions and feedback. I appreciate them all.

    jayman2, thanks especially for pointing out the titling and VA stuff. That's the place of the sale, so it would make sense that the laws there would be the ones to follow.

    Thursday should be the day that I see how this is going to be resolved.
     
    #46 theowl, Jul 21, 2009
  7. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    7,028
    1,116
    0
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Stores do not pay sales tax, they collect sales tax. If the tax isn't collected then it is the buyer's responsibility to pay it to the government. In NJ there is a line on the income tax form for this purpose. DC knows about the transaction & knows it didn't receive the tax. I doubt they will look the other way.
     
    #47 JimN, Jul 21, 2009
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,531
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    This sounds like a golden opportunity. Run the *dealer's* Prius into a hummer on the way to return it.

    j/k.

    If this was me ? I'd return the car with no hard feelings, and thank the dealer for a couple of free weeks with a new car. Then, if the dealer asked me if I would be interested in a great deal, I might listen.
     
    #48 SageBrush, Jul 21, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  9. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    89
    5
    0
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    I will definitely be all ears to hear what the dealer wants to offer.
     
    #49 theowl, Jul 21, 2009
  10. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    2,010
    353
    0
    Location:
    Outer Banks of NC.. Retired to play golf and poker
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad


    Yes the mileage cutoff in VA is something under 10000 miles for demo's. We have to park all demo's at about 5000 - 6000 miles. But when these 'down' demos are sold eventually they are always new vehicles. No title is issued when a vehicle is put into demo service in VA.
     
    #50 DeadPhish, Jul 21, 2009
  11. hampdenwireless

    hampdenwireless Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    1,104
    86
    0
    Location:
    Baltimore MD
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    That line on the tax return is for people who buy mail order/internet from out of state and don't pay the tax (and that's a can of worms in itself). If you own a store and forget to charge the customer sales tax, the customer is not the one that owes it. The store owner owes the tax. Yes, the customer is supposed to pay it and its your JOB to collect it. Fail to collect it and that is your problem. You can ask the customer to pay it but they don't have to.
     
    #51 hampdenwireless, Jul 21, 2009
  12. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    89
    5
    0
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Situation Resolved!

    Before I share the details, I want to say a big THANK YOU to everyone here who posted feedback and suggestions. Special super thanks are due to Dianne and Jabber for the multiple comments (from very well informed sources), but thanks to everyone who posted even those who were critical. All points of view were appreciated, as I noted earlier.

    Here's what happened: Armed with 6 pages of PriusChat expertise, I went to the dealership to ask for the person who called me. Before going in, I took a few minutes to take all of my personal items out of my Prius and carried them with me. As I asked for the person who called me, I had both keys in hand and my belongings in tow.

    After pleasantries, I told him that I was there to have a "listening session" based on last week's call and said that I am honoring the contract and expected them to do the same. He said that there was an honest mistake and that they needed to resolve it based on direction from Toyota. I told him that I would be happy to entertain a reasonable solution; however, there would be a ground rule: no more money from me.

    They came back offering a slight increase in my monthly lease rate, and I reminded them of my ground rule. At this point, I also reminded them that I purchased a service agreement, window etching, and floor mats. I wanted them to know that they had money to work with. Also, I told them that I know that they don't pay sticker to buy from Toyota. With that said, the original contract terms were honored, a new contract was reprinted (they took money off the sales price and reduced the service contact price).

    So, I am happy with the resolution. I would have been happier if they had just immediately recontracted at the original monthly rate, but part of me does not blame the dealer for trying... Isn't the expression, "You don't get the deal you deserve, only the one you negotiate."? (I think I read that in zaxcom's thread...)

    So, I am very happy with the car again. The dealership staff genuinely were polite. I have no impression that this was a scam or anything, and I want to be clear about that. They seem like reasonable folks, and I'd probably give them my business again, which will be in about 24 months with this lease is up.

    On my way home (once I loaded the Prius back up), I felt like the Prius commercials
    where the car is towing the sun. My new favorite song (Kaci Battaglia's Crazy Possessive) was even on XM when I turned the car on!

    FYI, I mentioned that I had unloaded the Prius and was ready to walk away from the car. Well, that's 100 percent true, but only because I had another dealership standing by with a IV w/NAV (albeit in Barcelona Red, a beautiful color, but not my preference) and an agreement on price. Thankfully, I did not need to hop in a cab and go that route.
     
    #52 theowl, Jul 23, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  13. stream

    stream Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    2,977
    452
    14
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Glad you got it resolved. Enjoy your car.
     
    #53 stream, Jul 23, 2009
  14. Zaxcom

    Zaxcom Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    114
    13
    0
    Location:
    NC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Hey we both got our contract issues resolved in the same week. I know I am relived that the issue is closed. You must feel the same. Enjoy the ride.
     
    #54 Zaxcom, Jul 23, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,557
    10,324
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    I would blame them for trying, because the situation is much too similar to common scams. That is why, in my state (Washington, the state, not DC), your dealer's initial try would be a violation of consumer protection laws, and they should know it. Here, the dealer has only two choices -- honor the deal, or take back the car and return all your money and your trade-in car, if any. Because the trade-in has often been auctioned and unrecoverable, the dealer is normally left with only one option.
     
    #55 fuzzy1, Jul 23, 2009
  16. jay_man2

    jay_man2 jay_man_also

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    1,246
    144
    0
    Location:
    Manassas, VA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Glad it worked out to your satisfaction, and really appreciate your posting about it. Now we won't have to say nasty things about you in that other thread about posters who ask questions then never respond again. :p

    And it's nice to see that there really are reputable Toyota dealers out there.
     
    #56 jay_man2, Jul 24, 2009
  17. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    89
    5
    0
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Absolutely! I think this was a total fluke happening, but I'm glad it got resolved without too much trouble.

    I agree 100 percent. I think we should all post the good and bad experiences, but this definitely ended up in the good column.
     
    #57 theowl, Jul 24, 2009
  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,531
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    This is a fairy large dealership, isnt' it ? I wonder if we will hear of other stories.
     
    #58 SageBrush, Jul 24, 2009
  19. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    89
    5
    0
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    I don't know how this one ranks in volume with other dealerships in the area. I don't see them advertise on TV much, while Koon's Toyota is always running their "Koon's. We're going to wow ya." ads. Those ads just drive me crazy. So, when I was looking at the Prius, I passed over a closer Koon's dealership to go to Bill Page. It is a tad further out of DC than Koon's, but worth it for me.

    I seriously doubt that this dealer will make the same mistake twice with a DC resident.
     
    #59 theowl, Jul 24, 2009
  20. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,531
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Didn't it take Toyota the better part of two weeks to reject the financing ? Until the dealer is notified of the problem, they would presumably continue their practice.
     
    #60 SageBrush, Jul 24, 2009
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 3 of 4