toyota mandates dealers not to do "cash for clunkers"

Making money by screwing you? Sounds like a job for Fred Garvin: Male Prostitute!
You out there Fred?

 

I live in Washington too. I just (last Tuesday) took delivery of my 2010. I saved 3,100 in sales tax. My dealer gave me a very fair trade in on my 2006 Gen II. Prius is selling very well. Toyota is spending a lot on Prius advertising. Given the way cars are allocated, I am amazed your dealer is holding anything now. I am suspicious of this guzzler law and pretty sure it won't be very easy to get that $4500.

 

I think the clunkers program is a bad idea. The clunkers are not the gas guzzlers on the road-- the clunkers are the politicians in Washington who made gas guzzlers possible by exempting SUVs from mpg laws. The government regards SUVs as trucks, but does that keep them out of "no trucks" passing lanes on the highway? No, because the cops don't enforce it. The system is out of whack, and it will take 10 years to correct it.

 

SUVs aren't "exempt" from "mpg laws". "Light trucks" (includes SUVs, pickups, minivans and some vans; all must have GVWR <8500 lbs.) still are tested for fuel economy and count toward's a manufacturer's CAFE numbers. The light truck CAFE requirement is lower than the "27.5 mpg" required for the two (import and domestic) passenger car fleets.

What's a travesty is that non-passenger cars (light trucks and beyond) are EXEMPT from the gas guzzler tax and monstrosity vehicles w/GVWR >8500 lbs. such as the Hummer H2, Ford Expedition EL, Ford Excursion and most Lincoln Navigators are exempt from being even tested for fuel economy and therefore can't count against a car maker's CAFE numbers, for now.

 

And this is why I maintain that corporate entities should not be allowed to lobby the government or it's officials. So so many bad things that happen in our world are due to giant corporations getting laws changed or created to favor their activities and bottom line. The financial crisis, breaks for polluting and gas guzzling SUVs, pollution abatements for dirty power plants, on and on. Corporations have no rights under the Constitution so I say we should be the ones telling them what to do, not the other way around.

 

I went out to the local shopping Mecca today. I was reading this thread before I went out and it was still in my head.
Funny thing all the way out (10 miles) and when driving around the shopping area I was noticing that there isn't going to be too many cars that will qualify, or worth less than $3,500 on the road. Plus with real unemployment running at 16.9% (U6) those people will not be in the market for car under CARS. 9.5% is with massaged numbers of hypothetical jobs created and does not count people who's benefits have run out and those who have given up on looking for a job.

First of all the 18 mpg limit is the biggest limitation.

Second unless someones vehicle is worth less than $3K
they are not getting rid of it if is problem free and reliable.
There is no need for a car payment on a $20K car in this shaky economy which could go either way in the next 24 months.

Third 4 out of every 5 cars sold by dealers in this country are used.

Fourth how large is the Hybrid/TDI market? 5% if your lucky.
Monthly U.S. sales are running on average 800K cars a month or less. So there is only 40K cars per month that are capable meeting the 10 mpg $4,500 threshold.

Fifth an Example: Joe six pack is driving a 2000 Ford F150 rated at 16 combined and has 120K miles on it.
It is worth $2,100 and he wants to buy a new 2010 F-150 and participate in the program. The new F-150 only gets one mpg more than his present truck. He is SOL.

Pop over to the Fuel Economy and start clicking around with cars newer than 15 years old. You are going to be hard pressed to find many cars that get under 18 mpg. I went to 1999 Dodge and only the larger engined Caravan's qualified at 18 or less mpg. A 2010 only gets 19 mpg combined a whole 1 mpg more again the owner doesn't qualify under the CARS program.

Unless the vehicle is over eight years old and has over 100,000 miles it is worth more than $3,500 under the clunkers program.

On your way to and from work tomorrow start looking around at the other vehicles on the road and see how many you can spot that would qualify for CARS.

Think of it as new type of game like Bug and padiddle.
You remember those when you were a kid. Picking out VW Bug in traffic or a car with a head light burned out.

 

I really hope this is not true. I am planning on buying a 2010 Prius with the help of $4500 from my clunker eventually, just not on the 24th. As the original poster said "the east coast is going to be able to start it hours before the west coast and by then the federal funds will be gone" that is really hard to believe unless there are not many funds put aside for the CARS program. I don't want to plan on cashing in my clunker eventually and have the funds be gone already. Does anyone have an idea as to how fast the funds may run out?
(first post and I love this forum!):rockon:

 

totally false.
I've had my Prius for a week and I traded in my clunker for 4500. There are a few Toyota dealerships in the Bay Area that do them now.
First dealer I went to, the sale people told me it hasn't been signed yet. I walked out immediately.

 

It sounds like another nasty, incorrect, internet rumor.

To the contrary - I'm planning to pick up my Prius on the 24th if all goes well with the start of the clunkers program. When I went in 2 months ago to place a deposit, the dealership was very aware of the program and the expected time frame for it to be passed and start up - which fortunately coincided with the length of time it took to get my car! I checked out a few other Toyota dealerships along the way and all were planning to participate in the program. Other PC'ers have said they're getting their Prius under this plan too.

IIRC, Jabber and Dianne, who work at dealerships and are frequent contributors here, have indicated that they expect to participate in the plan.

FWIW - my clunker is a '98 Ford Explorer rated at 15mpg. There will probably be a surge in sales at the start, pent up demand from folks like me who have been waiting for the program. But I doubt all of the available $ will be gone in hours.

 

My dealer told me they planned to participate and they were willing to hold a Prius, with a deposit, if I wanted to wait for the Cash for Clunkers program. I didn't need it, but they offered. As for the money running out, there are prognostications on the Internet that the program could be out of the first seed money by Labor Day, and speculation about Congress increasing their initial $1 Billion. It's anybody's guess . . . --TK

 

The Obama Administration needs a success in the stimulus arena. If this program is popular it will surely get re-funded. They need a winner right about now.

 

This thread needs to just be locked and killed for all time. You spoke to an ill-informed, lazy, or stupid car salesman. Imagine...

 

Edmunds, as part of Cash for Clunkers Car Buying Stimulus Bill, maintains a list at Cash for Clunkers Eligible Vehicles List - Edmunds.com. Long ago, when I checked, I was slightly surprised that my former 91 Camry V6 qualifies. It was rated 18/24, 21 combined by the old EPA method and has been adjusted to 16/22, 18 combined now. There's no way one of those would be worth $4500 on the used car market as a private party sale.

 

i have not heard that

 

How down are Toyota's sales? More than 35% over last year and dealers are playing games like this. These are the guys that need to go out of business. Toyota finds out these dealers are pulling this crap and I can bet you that someone is going to see their allocation of Prius's shrink quickly.

 

I would get your ducks in a row first with other dealers. This program is something that a dealership has to sign up for. It isn't something that we won't do the first day, see how many customers are leaving and decide to start doing the next day. We have to be approved by the government to do this program.

 

I was at Rhinelander Toyota (Northern WI) today and they have a line up of 9 cars that are "sold" just waiting for them to get the final forms and sign up procedures from NTSB so that they can complete deals. They are willing to hold cars for a few days while this gets sorted out. They report lots of people coming in looking to take advantage of the CARS program.

None of the 9 "sold" cars were a Prius, but they do have a Prius II for the taking. I still hope the Prius III I have on order comes in before the Feds run out of money and close the program down.