Brakes - Scared the SH!T Out of Me

I think the key here is the "I hit the brakes" comment. I think the 2010 brakes are even more sensitive than earlier models. Overall design of Gen IV is to improve our driving skills and improve safety. I also applied my brakes firmly when I first got the new car when someone pulled out in front of me, ABS definitely in play.

 

My FJ does the same thing. So did the 2000 GMC Sierra I used to have

 

My Gen II brakes were so bad I gave the car to my Mom the last gen brakes were so bad it made the car un drivable to me. Really shoddy engineering is the problem not manhole covers or road defects. The new one is much improved but still crap really. Any similarly priced German car will stop in 30% less distance at any given speed. I defy anyone to find a test that shows this differently. But in the end the fuel economy and relative green benefits outweigh the costs to me. As some owners will tell you. you just start adjusting to it and ultimately driving slower and safer which is not such a bad thing but if your in a big rush or being chased and you value your life at all take another car this is the main short coming on the cost/efficiency balance Toyota has struck

 

on the Gen II your issues probably related to OEM tires.

 

Again, my FJ Cruiser will behave the same way. High performance German cars will probably have more aggressive brakes anyway

But the average Toyota, Honda, Chevy, etc, they all react about the same to braking on washboardy gravel roads, railway crossings, etc

 

This is a normal function of just about every ABS-equipped car on the road. The ABS is looking for wheel lockup while your're braking. If you hit a bump or run over a chuckhole while braking, and if your wheel locks when it looses traction with the road, the ABS will engage because it thinks you might be skidding. Nothing to worry about.

 

Indeed, if you do a lot of driving on washboardy gravel roads, you're better off driving a vehicle without ABS, as it will stop a lot quicker than a modern vehicle with ABS. In that scenario, you hit the brakes, all 4 lock up, and the vehicle digs in and quickly stops.

 

yep and if gravel is loose enough... call a tow truck.

other than an occasional spooky feeling of "no control" that lasts a split second, there is little downside. you stopping distance might increase a foot or two.

i can cause ABS to slip on demand because i know when any why it happens, so i either steer around it or ignore the feeling when it happens.

now, one of these days, that extra few feet of stopping distance maybe the difference in hitting someone or not. but if thats all it takes, it will be a pretty minor accident. so ya, its a trade off.

on the one hand, i could look at a possibly expensive accident (most likely scenario would have me rear-ending someone so i would be compltetely liable) now, in my entire life, i have only rear-ended someone one time and that had nothing to do with brakes. we were at a busy intersection turning right. he was in front of me, went about 30 feet and the stopped. me being a dummy, simply took my foot off the brake to look right to see if i could follow his gap. i could have easily but he stopped. although the accident happened because he felt the 200 yard gap was not sufficient enough for him to enter traffic AND the fact that i thought a MINIMUM of 8 cars could have made it easily, i rolled into him.

now, i have been driving a long time and maybe my time is coming

now the compromise will be to drive a car that will save me a minimum of 2-3 cents per mile which with my driving is $400 a year just in gas.

 

If the road is like beach sand, yes, otherwise, no

The washboardy gravel road to the hobby farm, both my Prius and my FJ at 50 km/h, took about a carlength longer to stop than the old Ford work truck which would lock up the brakes.

When a deer is spooked and jumps out, that can mean the difference between stopping in time, and hitting it

Overall, I much prefer ABS on the highway, due to the control it provides. Nothing more exciting than locking up all 4 wheels and sliding sideways. Spair briefs mandatory

On wet roads, you will usually stop a bit quicker than without ABS. But on dry roads it usually won't help the vehicle stop quicker

 

There's a long winding downhill stretch of road from my home with a certain well-worn asphalt patch that often engages the VSC even though it's sunny and dry.

The VSC system sometimes seem almost overly cautious....

 

I owned an E32 7 series BMW before my Prius. I once stomped on the brakes SO hard a hydraulic hose popped off the reservoir holding the hydraulic fluid for the brakes. Fortunately I was still near my home so returned and fixed it. I can't remember what I braked for...

"I brake for Elvis, cats, children, nuns and other Prius drivers":rockon:

 

true true which boils down to the fact that ABS was designed in a lab setting with a controlled environment and that is where it works best. in a setting where the coefficient of friction is constant, it works very well.

now when that coefficient of friction changes suddenly, ABS has more than enough time to recognize that, but momentum and the inability of the mechanical system to react quick enough is what causes the slips.

so it takes a bit for the system to readjust, but i can live it

 

I'd counter that there may be occasions and drivers for which that is true, but unless the driver is skilled and can maintain threshold braking to the point of lockup until stopped, irrespective of surface material, I'd go with ABS any time. I took the Accident Avoidance course twice at Summit Point in the days before ABS was common and we spent hours just on threshold braking (modulate with just some press & release movement of your toes), and I doubt the average, or maybe even above average driver (like we all are :rockon, can duplicate ABS performance and the ability to steer around the obstacle. Once you lock up you're toast, and steering is not an option.

 

Do you really mean VSC? VSC deals with loss of directional control, such as skidding in a corner. This thread is talking about brakes, which are unrelated to VSC other than being used by the VSC system to help regain control.

Tom

 

I knew that...

 

That's no opinion, it's a fact. Brake pedal halfway down should always apply the same braking force as having break pedal halfway down, and it certainly should not change while the pedal is already depressed just because you drive over a manhole cover.

 

How would it do this when traction has been lost? The hydraulic brakes do come in with the same braking force when regeneration stops, but traction has already been lost on at least one front wheel. The front wheels supply the majority of braking force on any car, so losing traction on a front wheel is going to hurt your braking distance.

Looking at your statement from another side, would you expect the brakes to stop in the same distance if you are on ice? Without friction brakes are just an ornament.

Tom

 

The feature's called brake assist. Besides on the Prius, it's standard on many ABS equipped cars. Even my 02 Nissan Maxima had it (the first ABS equipped car I owned).