Worst Idea Ever: Toyota To Produce Prius For GM?

Let me first state that I plan to read the replies to this thread with great interest and I'll change my opinion if with new information or a unthought of POV I become convinced in another direction. This is not a set in stone opinion.

Ideally, you'd hope GM someday produces a hybrid or alternative automobile capable of competing with the Prius themselves. But realistically given GM's current situation what is wrong with a partnership with Toyota? If Toyota is willing to do it, and it can be economically beneficial to both companies what's the problem?

I knew a lot of people who bought GEO's knowing they were rebadged Corollas. I know a lot of people outside of the desired age demographic that bought Scion XB's in part because they knew they were built by Toyota.

GM needs a new direction, and a new reputation. If Toyota is willing to partner and it makes economic sense for both companies I don't really see a downside. More direct automotive partnership even between competitors just might be the wave of the future.

I'm not 100% versed on the details but I know Ford paid Toyota for the right to use at least some HSD technology in the new Fusion Hybrid. That's more or less a one sided "purchased" partnership.

For me the economics would have to work, but if it can be made to be beneficial to both GM and Toyota, and both parties want it to happen, then what's the problem?

GM needs to diversify, needs to "Move Forward" to borrow Toyotas tag line if this can be accomplished through partnership I don't see a problem.

The only drawback I can think of would be how would this affect GM's potential research and design? I would guess while working with Toyota on a "GM Prius", Toyota might want some type of assurance that GM not produce a competing hybrid of their own. If that is the case then how would it affect the Volt or any other potential GM born hybrid?

If you can't Beat em, Join Em? I guess given GM's current tenious existence I have to side with anything that might give them a boost domestically, even if that means a partnership with a competitor.

If this can be made to work and be beneficial to both companies why do we care? The Corolla was rebadged and sold. The Matrix as well. Is there some type of offense taken with the idea that The Prius might be called something different and "shudder" have a GM badge? Right now, ANYTHING that can help re-establish GM and get consumers in their lots has got to be taken as a positive for GM and the USA.

 

Aboslutely worst idea ever!!

 

If it keeps people working, and the quality remains, why not?

I too bought GEOs in the past, and nearly bought a Vibe/Matrix.

 

Win/win for both companies.

GM gets a highly valuable product with a rock-solid reputation to bolster their reshuffled product line.

Toyota essentially "franchises" their Prius line/technology to GM (highly profitable) and becomes a key player in the reshuffled GM.

I know some on this site might view this as a negative (aka it's "our" Prius don't share it with anyone mentality) but if a company like Toyota can continue building great products and has the opportunity to gain any edge in the market it's a huge edge for them.

If I owned a company that made widgets and I sold 100,000 a year and another company wanted to guarantee me the purchase of 50,000 widgets a year (which might generate as much profit as 25,000 that I would sell)...now my sales are 150,000 for the year and 50,000 are already guaranteed as SOLD.

Plenty of companies operate as shadow companies and make huge profits doing it. Sony makes Panasonic LCD TV's but they are sold as Panasonic.

 

I'm guessing it's not going to happen...looks like GM is dumping NUMMI on Toyota.

GM Media Online

"As part of its long-term viability plan, General Motors has decided that its ownership stake in the New United Motor Manufacturing Incorporated (NUMMI) joint venture with Toyotawill not be a part of the 'New GM’. After extensive analysis, GM and Toyota could not reach an agreement on a future product plan that made sense for all parties. Accordingly,NUMMI will end production of vehicles for GM in August, and there are no future GM vehicles planned for the joint venture at this time.Given that, GM believes it is in the best interest of the ‘New GM’ and its stakeholders that we placeour ownership interest in NUMMI in 'Old GM’. We have enjoyed a very positive and beneficial partnership with Toyota for the past 25 years, and we remain open tofuture opportunities of mutual interest.â€

 

I'd like to weigh in on this posted article, if I may.

The picture of Joaquin Phoenix incorrectly portrays the meaning of the "thumbs down" from Roman culture. This signal actually meant the gladiator's life should be spared by putting "down the swords". This signal was mistaken by French artist Leon Gerome, and continues in popular culture today.

See more here. Don't believe that, well then here's another interpretation.

That's all I have to say about this matter. Hope it helps clarify everything.

Doug Coleman
Prius Product Manager
Toyota Motor Sales, USA

 

If this comes to pass, and it presents greater competition to the local dealers, forcing them to treat me more like a customer, then this is the best idea ever.

 

Maybe this could result in a "two tiered" Prius sales strategy;

Toyota sells the Gen III,

GM sells a re-badged Gen II... I vote for the Ohm, as in "Ohm-I-God!"

Toyota has already announced it will be selling both at the same time
in Japan.

There is nothing wrong with the GEN II. Sure, maybe it's not at the
absolute technological cutting edge any more... but it is far ahead of
the competition in FE, air quality, interior volume, reliability, etc.
Opportunities for a huge after market for modding and upgrades too.

A simple, inexpensive model could continue on as an entry level
every-man's hybrid for many years into the future and give GM some
breathing room to get it's own program up and running.

Get the base vehicle price below $20 and add a "factory PHEV option"
at less that $10K with ~100 MPGs for 20 - 40 miles.

A killer combination... sounds like the Volt doesn't it.

 

The Gen2 costs more to make then the Gen3. This is a bad long term option. No sense in making a factory to make Gen2's from scratch!

They could build a lower level gen3, less options (Prius gen3 option I) or a Prius gen3 with half a battery pack (still using it conservatively so it lasts forever like the current pack).

I think its a dumb idea for GM to have any involvement in it. I have no problem with Toyota BUYING the Nummi plant and running it themselves.

 

Let GM dig it's way out.

 

I appreciate your thoughtful reply. Sure got me thinking!

Initially, my first reaction was to think of how bad of an idea this is; maybe because of Danny's title! My first reaction: I think I was disappointed that GM should become dependent on another corporation instead of being able to demonstrate innovation of their own that does not ultimately depend on someone else.

Here, GM seems to be falling into more of a distributor/assembly role rather than an innovator producing products with new and original ideas, as I believe Toyota is doing with the Prius and has done with it's established reputation with the Corolla and Camry.

Talk about opposites attract . . .

In the short term, with GM's apparent bankruptcy of ideas along with their finances, I suppose it makes sense to be schooled in the art of innovation by someone who knows what they are doing. On the other hand, a corporation that needs to be taken by the hand to the degree GM has, it just has the smell of death all over it.

If Toyota is doing this, I am sure it will be to their benefit (not GM's), ultimately. I can understand Toyota being interested in GM's worldwide infrastructure, to be able to acquire a vast industrial footprint which allows unlimited potential for a corporation that knows how to develop it. Obviously, GM does not.

 

I think its a good idea, too bad GM can't roll their own (they are but it will be another couple of years) and they (GM) needs something NOW

 

This could be a good idea if

1) It gets GM producing more fuel efficient vehicles.

2) It get the general public that "wouldn't buy one of those japanese cars" into a fuel efficient "American" car. <Yes Virginia, those that would spout an ignorant guff at "Japanese" cars would be ignorant enough to not realize GM was selling a rebadge Prius>.

3) Maybe GM could redesign the looks of the Prius to attract a group of buyers who don't like the "looks" of the Prius. Hopefully, they won't blow it like Mercury did with the "Capri" version of the Miata (god, how could Mercury make such an ugly car when Mazda made a sporty looking one, I'll never know).

4) GM could eventually design and implement their own fuel efficient cars to compete with Toyota and others.

My biggest fear is that GM will blow the whole thing and sour people on hybrids (the Malibu hybrid is a fantastic example of this). If they produce a big steamy pile of dung, then prospective buyers might equate the Prius to a big steamy pile of you know what too.

Likely that won't happen. In the end, we may get more fuel efficient, lower polluting cars on the road, and that is a GREAT thing.

 

I support the idea so long as the car is rebadged to something like 'Privy' or 'Preview' or whatever, and a tag line like "The General Motors Privy by Toyota," or "The GM Privy.. brother to the infamous Toyota Prius." Etc. The idea here is to assue the public understands that this is GM's car, not Toyota's in case it goes terribly bad. GM has mucked-up many very good autos. It would be a shame if they muck up a Prius and it car drives a sword through Toyota's legendary reliability.

 

After a person leaves a failed relationship, it is common knowledge that a fast "rebound" relationship is doomed. I think it might be too soon for Toyota to reach down and save GM from failing in its relationship with its own customers. How well thought-out is this scheme? Will it be a problem for both companies in a year or two, once the lack of synergy is discovered?

I know some "buy-American" car buyers who would be turned off by a GM partnership with Toyota. Will they turn around and buy a Ford hybrid because Ford's relationship with Toyota is more circumspect and more limited? That might help Ford but we're talking about GM and Toyota.

I don't have a better idea for GM, sorry.

 

umm ok... well, hmm...

so am i to assume that classic sales of the Pri have dropped so much since intro of the 2010, that Toyota is looking at other avenues for a quick sale?. but then again, if NUMMI is mentioned that would imply "new" as in "yet to be built" vehicles.

now if this is the only or quickest way to get an american made Prius on the road, i guess that would be good.

just depressing that that would be the only way... why cant Toyota just buy out GM's half of the factory, sell it to Ford and partner with them?

if i was a captain of a ship, not sure i would want to take on another anchor

 

Like others here, I had a pretty negative reaction on reading the story. Thank you for helping me deal with that initial response. I still think it could be a disaster for Toyota, but Toyota needs cash and more customers. Perhaps thi provides both.

So long as it isn't a short-term fix with long-term problems (like losing ground on hybrid market share because of poor production and faulty quality controls), then I'd tend to agree. The problem is that widgets are widgets, but cars are not widgets. I don't know that Toyota should consider giving over any production control of any hybrid vehicle.

My recollection is that Ford and Toyota settled a lawsuit involing intellectual property claims arising from Ford's introduction of the Ford Escape Hybrid. Ford paid Toyota a "license" fee to avoid the litigation costs. (They each may have paid something to the other.) I don't think Ford has paid Toyota anything since then for the use of the HSD.