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Electric Porsche!

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by daniel, May 14, 2009.

  1. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I hope you're aware they're more of a stag party prank than anything else?

    Robot women are another thing, once they get the bugs ironed out
     
  2. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    There was a movie about this sicko who treated one as though she was a real woman. He insisted she was alive. Totally bonkers. So his family and then the whole town played along. They told him he could not keep a woman locked up all the time; she needed to have a social life. They took the thing to parties and to church and to governmental functions. I think they elected her to the city council and took her to the council meetings. Pretty soon he never saw her because she had more of a life than he did. So he said she was sick, and then he said she had died, and he wailed and mourned and had a proper funeral and had the thing buried in a proper coffin at the local cemetery.

    I'd have sent it back to the store for a refund.

    If I ever buy a robot woman I don't want any bugs, ironed or otherwise. Dead flat scorched bugs may not be as bad as live ones, but I still don't want them. But if they ever do make a robot with personality, she'll probably refuse to have anything to do with me.

    *****

    For all the rest, yes, the world is an amazing place. But loneliness still hurts.
     
  3. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

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    That depends on how desperate that beautiful 20-ish Russian is to get out of Russia. I agree that in your case it was most likely a scam but was also pointing out that the mail-order thing isn't always. Some work, some don't though that is the same as most marriages.


    Why aren't you going out with the woman that replied to your ad? You say she looks older than the 63 years that she claims but that isn't any reason not to go out.

    You claim that women don't like you and you are afraid to talk to them. How are you ever going to learn to talk to woman if you never date? It takes practice and you shouldn't be waiting for the perfect woman to practice. GO OUT WITH SOME WOMEN even if they aren't your perfect match. You may even have some fun.

    It is like interviewing for a job. Do you really want to wait for the perfect job to learn how to interview and what kinds of questions they ask? NO, you apply for a lot of jobs even if they aren't perfect. The interviews with companies that you aren't very interested in give an opportunity to practice and hone your skills. Also if you go into it with the attitude that it is only practice, it helps you relax and in general the more relaxed you are the better. When the right job comes along you have all your answers and questions down pat and are confident in the interview process.

    It is the same with dating. Go out on some dates, meet some women, talk to some women. Get comfortable talking to women even if you aren't interesting in marrying them. When the right woman comes along you won't be tongue tied. You may actually have some fun in the process and you never know when you might actually like someone once you meet them.

    BTW, I highly recommend dance classes as a way to meet women. Most have far too many women for the number of men so you will get a chance to dance with and meet women.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    +1. What the heck, +∞. Learning to dance is one of the best things a guy can do if he wants to meet women.

    Tom
     
  5. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    So give up already. Forty five years of trying, with nothing but misery to show for it? Time to switch teams. Go find a gay bar, order a tall 'virgin' anything, and see what happens. Yes, I'm serious.
     
  6. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Or, as I call it, Mixed Wrestling
     
  7. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I have an etiquette question about the dance classes: Do I bring the steel-toes shoes for her to wear? And how do I know what size to get when I don't know before going what size my eventual dance partner wears?
     
  8. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

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    In the classes I've taken, we rotated partners. It's good for your (dance) form to experience people of different sizes and shapes than you might become used to with a single partner. Funny how the law of nature applies: adapt or die - even dancing.

    All of this (not including the Porsche) reminds me of this quote I remember reading from slashdot:

    "The older we get, the fewer good people there are. Good people marry their childhood sweethearts and live happily-ever-after. Then hour by hour, day by day, there are fewer and fewer; and those that remain have more and more luggage they bring. Then when they are finally ready for that Mr. or Ms. Nice they have so much luggage that Mr. or Ms. Nice would rather die alone then deal with the mistakes of those that now late in life come around. I fear that the generations to come will suffer their parents misdeeds and the cycle will get worse rather then better."

    Post: Slashdot Comments | Class Teaches Nerds Social Skills
    Thread: Slashdot | Class Teaches Nerds Social Skills
     
  9. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I think you basically hit the nail on the head!
     
  10. lys

    lys AerodynamicMac

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    Epic tread, indeed.

    Anyway, get a happy new year in your life, Daniel.

    As a Gemini myself -just my birthday mere days before- I can understand your pain to find interesting people. But in the same boat goes a natural bright to express yourself, as we can read daily in your posts.
    (Not my case in English, since it isn't my mother's language).

    I believe you.
     
  11. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    UPDATE: I had a long phone conversation with Paul, during which I raised, and we discussed, all my concerns:

    1. The shoddy way the A/C condensers & their fans were fastened in front.

    He expressed surprise. He said that the straps he used were extremely strong, and are used in race cars, and he could not imagine how they had broken. He insisted that the fans were originally held in place with plastic clips, and that his straps were stronger. He had nothing to say about the fact that the rims or frames of the fans had been cut off.

    But he agreed to pay for the work to put all of this right.

    2. The loose lug nuts on one wheel and loose transmission mounting, including one bolt not tightened at all.

    Again, he was surprised, and said he would strengthen his procedures for checking such things in future.

    He agreed to pay for the work of fixing this as well.

    3. The missing underbody panels.

    Again, he expressed surprise. He wondered if they could have been removed en route, but I said I thought this was vanishingly unlikely, and he agreed to replace them. He said he would either find my panels, if they are still in his shop, or get others used, and ship them to me. I insisted that if he gets used ones, they must be in perfect condition, because my car was impeccably cared for, and anything less would not be acceptable.

    4. The controller. Our contract specified a 1,000-amp controller. He substituted a 500-amp Curtis controller when the Logisystems controllers were having problems. I found a guy locally willing to sell me and install a 2K Zilla. I asked Paul to pay for half of that, since it's twice the size of the one we contracted. I also do not believe that a 1,000-amp controller would have given the car the promised performance.

    Paul replied that our contract was not for a Zilla, which is a lot more expensive than a Logisystems for the same amperage. He offered instead to either send me a Logisystems 1000-amp controller or send me the money one would cost, in return for the return of the Curtis. I had to agree that our contract was for a 1000-amp controller, not a Zilla, and I accepted his offer to send me the money a Logisystems controller would cost. I'll pay the balance myself for the 2K Zilla, which is a lot more, but a lot better, than what the car would have had under our contract.

    5. The contract promised "approx. 125 miles range." I extrapolate 80 miles range to dead empty driving gently, based on my wh used. 125 miles of range would require half again more batteries than I have. Installing these batteries would require removing the back seats, and while I'd be willing to lose the back seats, the job appears daunting. So I asked Paul to refund me half of what I paid him for batteries in compensation for the failure to achieve the promised range.

    He replied that this was the first late model (i.e. heavier than 1970's-era) Porsche to ever get LiFePO4 batteries, and was therefore "experimental" and the contract had mentioned only an approximate range, not a promised range. I replied that as the builder, he had made representations to me on both range and acceleration, and that the actual car did not come anywhere close to either. I said that as the builder, he should have known what the car would do, or else told me clearly that he did not really know, because I would not have paid what I did for the car if he had told me that the range would be "something between 80 and 125 miles." I also reminded him here that I had told him very clearly that one of the big reasons I paid extra for a late-model donor car, rather than saving money by selecting an older one, was that I wanted the safety features: air bags, ABS, and stability control. He never told me that I would lose the ABS and stability control in the conversion. I am quite sure that he simply didn't know. But he never told me that he had never conveed a late-model Porsche before. All his prior experience was with older cars. So he was not entirely open with me. And as a result I entered into a project that I would not have, at that price, had I known that there were so many unknowns.

    He said that he could not refund me the money I was asking for batteries/range.

    The phone call was getting long, both of us had other things to do, and we agreed to end the phone call without having yet resolved the issue of batteries and range. I made it clear that I was not satisfied, but that I was willing to put off further discussion until a later time.

    I paid him $36,000 for the battery pack. I asked him for $18,000 back, due to failure to achieve the promised range. I now believe that he charged me far more than the pack was actually worth, but at the time of the contract, I was paying for range, not for a set number of batteries. Therefore I feel he owes me $18,000. He says he does not because we agreed what I'd pay for batteries, and the 125 miles range was an approximation, not a promise. I feel that 80 miles is not "approximately" 125.

    So this issue remains unresolved.

    All in all, I would describe the conversation as strained but cordial. We ended by agreeing that we share a committment to electric vehicles, and we'd both like to find amicable solutions and remain friends. He agreed to pay for fixing the mechanical issues and we agreed about the controller. Only the battery/range issue remains unresolved.

    The Zilla should get put in next month, and I'll report on the results.
     
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    daniel, i dont blame you a bit for how you feel as i would feel the same. however, if you paid $36k for 125 miles and got 80 miles, then you should get back an adjusted amount based on range which should be 12k not 18k. either way, i hope everything works out for you.
     
  13. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I guess it depends on how you do the math. This $36K battery pack provides 80 miles, so it would take another $18K of batteries to provide 120 miles, which would be "approximately" 125. I think you are saying that $36K was supposed to get 125 miles but he only gave me 80 miles, which corresponds to $24K worth of batteries. I contend that my way of doing the math is the more correct, because it is based on the actual ability of the batteries and what it would actually cost in batteries to provide the range promised. Your method supposes that $36K of batteries would provide 125 miles of range, and he only gave me $24K worth of batteries, so he owes me the other $12K.

    If he accepted your analysis, he would be admitting that he overcharged me for batteries. My method, he is only admitting that he miscalculated how far one could go on $36K worth of batteries.

    But I do see what you are saying.
     
  14. brad_rules_man

    brad_rules_man Hybrid electric revolutionizer

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    Very interesting. I would try the 12k, and tell him the pricing strategy. He's more likely to agree to a smaller price. I would study your contract really well and consider talking to an attorney.
     
  15. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I'm not even going to think about attorneys until I've gotten the Zilla in and the underbody panels on and done some testing, and then see what agreement Paul and I can reach. The contract itself is very simple, and the car as delivered bears no resemblance, except outward appearance, to the car in the contract.

    It's also worth noting that in the world of EVs, since GM crushed the EV-1, no EV has ever come close to the range promised by the manufacturer. This is unacceptable. In production gasoline cars, including hybrids, where the EPA does the testing and requires manufacturers to use its numbers, there is an excuse: It's the government's fault. But in the world of conversion cars, there is no EPA involvement and it is absolutely unacceptable for companies to make inflated range promises. From the Tesla to the Zenn and the Xebra, real-world driving does not bear out the claims. If builders had to pay a monetary fine for failure to achieve claimed range, perhaps we could get realistic numbers.

    Let the maker drive the car however he likes, but with an independent observer present, and then publish the range he achieves and the conditions under which it was achieved, including wind, elevation difference, and a speed profile. Then if the vehicle is intended to be freeway capable, include figures for freeway driving.
     
  16. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    So there's a new development on the personals ad: Now I'm getting emails (from the same ad) asking me to contact them via yahoo Messenger or MSN Messenger. I have neither service and have no intention of it. I don't like instant messaging. They promise me that if I contact them via instant message (they give me a user name to contact) they'll give me their cell phone number.

    I know this is a scam, because if they were legit they'd be willing to correspond via regular email, but I cannot figure out what the scam is.

    And several of them have set me a "free" pass to what appears to be a web cam site. Of course the site demands a credit card, while assuring me I won't be charged (yeah, right: I'm still not in the market for a bridge or a piece of Florida swamp land). Of course it's a give-away when you get three emails simultaneously, with identical text, even down to the user name and "free" pass, all from different emails. Do they lack the basic English literacy to compose their own text? And why would three different people send me the same user name? If I did fall for the scam, they would not all get the payoff.

    Anyway, I mostly just cannot figure out why they're all suddenly asking me to contact them via IM.

    *****

    And on another subject, since the C d'A UU shuts up shop for the summer, today I went to the Spokane UU, where I mentioned my electric Porsche to several people. Only the men had any interest in it, and after the service I showed it to a bunch of them. Not one woman showed the slightest interest.

    But the music there is really good. Our congregation in C d'A is tiny, and our choir ranges from 2 to 5 or 6 people, none of whom sings all that well, but the Spokane UU has a fabulous choir. If anybody reading this is in Spokane, and open-minded enough to visit a church that lets people think for themselves, the Spokane UU is worth attending for the music alone.
     
  17. Muhahahahaz

    Muhahahahaz Member

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    I believe that your method is better, but not quite correct. What he owes you is enough batteries to go the full distance. For instance, he could install extra batteries for you, if possible, which would cost him less than $18k since he presumably makes a profit.

    However, if there simply isn't enough room to install the required batteries, then who knows... it's not like having $18k will allow you to correct the problem. Perhaps the $12k method would make more sense in that case, haha.
     
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Daniel,
    I realize you've been out getting intimate with bears and such, but we haven't heard from you on your Porsche EV lately. Can you bring us up to date? Did you get the new controller installed? Any improvements in performance?

    If not, you might be interested in learning that Zilla will resume production of controllers in a couple of months: EVDL Archive / Forum Interface - Electric Vehicle Discussion List

    Tell us how it's been doing.
     
  19. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I'm not a prude, but isn't that a bit, um ..... *weird*
     
  20. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    ...and highly dangerous!

    Tom