Key Fob Shock

Bob, is the key code system new for the Gen III? Does it actually allow for a new compatible fob to be created without having to program the car? If so, this brings up a few questions:

1) How do you keep someone else from making a duplicate and stealing you car?

2) Is the code a seed number of some sort? If so, how long is the code? A short code would be a security risk.

3) How do you prove that you are the rightful owner and therefor allowed to have an additional fob?

4) Is this code used to make extra fobs, or only to replace a fob?

Thanks,
Tom

 

This is how it worked on other cars I've owned with keyless entry systems, and I assume it's the same for the Prius:

The key code on the metal tag is the code for the physical (laser cut) key. This key will only unlock the car--there's no way to start the car using just the key.

Each fob has a unique code, and the car needs to be programmed to recognize that code and allow it to operate with the car.

 

That's the way it works with the Gen II Prius.

Tom

 

Stream is correct. The key could only open the door. If there wasn't a key fob that had been programmed to the vehicle, you wouldn't be able to start the car. No worries.

 

Wookie. I just put my key fob inside my pocket book and I never even think about it. You don't need to physically use the key to start, lock, or re-open your Prius. Enjoy your car!

 

I posted badly. It is probably just to unlock the door, the mechanical key. Any new FOB would still have to be "taught" to the car. However, to access the OBD port, if the Toyota scanner approach is used, you'd still need to get in the door.

Bob Wilson

 

Our dealer says a new key fob is $450 (Northern Virginia). Claim was something like: dealer's cost is $150 for the new, blank fob, $100 for the regional office to laser cut the key, and $200 for the dealer to program it, etc.

Ours came with the little metal plate/tag, which I've dropped into our fire safe. I'd be highly suspicious of the "haven't seen a plate in 16 years" garbage from the other dealer. Sounds like someone in receiving's been stealing them for 16 years.

 

If, I misunderstood you, then I apologize for the negativity, but I was feeling a lot of negativity from you. But, you have to admit, Toyota is nowhere near the financial burden to the US government (therefore the US people) that GM is.

 

How long will it take a dealer to get you a new fob? I assume they will have a box of them and can do it in a half hour but you never know.

From what I get out of this thread, you have to reprogram the car to recognize the fob, so you're looking at a tow to the dealer on top of the cost of the replacement fob. Ugh.

 

Keyfob, no problem. Laser cut key, problem. Apparently most dealer's don't have the equipment to do a laser cut, and have to send the job out to a locksmith. I'd really recommend getting a spare mechanical key (or several!), and at least a dumb keyfob as a backup. Still waiting for someone to try a Gen2 keyfob on a Gen3. If it works, then you could use a $50 eBay keyfob as a backup for starting the car. Otherwise it's a full fare dealer purchase.

 

Good idea, Bob. I too have the same metal tag provided with my 2008 Prius, with a 5 digit number designating (I assume) the physical key shape in the fob.
In addition, there is a separate 5-digit number provided on a label, together with the VIN number in bar code form as well as in human-readable form.
I have always assumed that the second 5-digit number provides the code to program the SKS electronic fob. Is this a valid assumption? Also, I fail to see why the mechanical key has to be "laser" cut .... a duplicate can be made without laser cutting; the old fashioned key cutting method will work just as well. It's not that the small mechanical key contains any electronics; that is what the fob is for.

 

No, it is not a valid assumption. The fob is not programmed. The car is programmed to accept a new fob. The Toyota specific keys are already installed in the car and fob.

Tom

 

For 2G cars:

If I'm reading the service manual correctly, keys have to be registered for three different subsystems:

- Remote entry (by pressing the button on the fob)
- Smart entry/start (presence of key in vicinity)
- Immobilizer (fob in slot)

Registering the key for smart entry/start only won't help if the battery runs down and you need to put the fob in the slot. I'm speculating a little as UK cars don't currently get SKS.

It appears that registering for smart entry automatically registers for remote entry as well, as the relevant part of the manual (section DL - Door Lock, Wireless Door Lock Control System [w/ Smart Key System]) doesn't have a Registration subsection. The procedure is actually pretty much the same - select the Add feature on the tester and press both Lock and Unlock on the fob for a short duration, then either switch for another short duration.

The confusion over four or five fobs is that 'Wireless Door Lock Control System (w/o Smart Key System)' mentions only four codes, whereas the immobilizer and smart key seem to support five codes.

The remote entry can be programmed with a sequence of steps on non-SKS cars (presumably they also work on SKS cars with non-SKS remotes, or even with SKS remotes but only for the remote entry function), although it resembles the hokey-cokey (key in, key out, close and open driver's door, repeat, key in and out a third time, close the doors, then power on and off to go into Add mode). The other features all require the Toyota diagnostic tester. In all cases you must have a working key available, or the 'security professionals' level of access to TIS.

To delete lost keys, all keys have to be deleted, apart from the key that's used to start the process. If you want to delete a key, you'll need all other keys present so they can be programmed back in.

Reportedly SKS keys can only be programmed to one car; buying used SKS fobs on eBay is a waste of money because they won't work. Presumably the car's code is programmed into the key somehow. The service manual doesn't mention this, though.

I don't have access to TIS, being European, and the EU site is not downloadable (well, if it were downloadable you could subscribe for a few € one time and never pay again). So I don't currently have information on the 3G. All cars are smart-key and there's no immobilizer slot, but the car still has a passive RFID detector in or near the power button, to cover the case where the fob's battery is too flat to operate the active radio. Hopefully they've been sensible enough to have it register for all features in one go, rather than multiple processes to register different aspects of the key.

 

i dont think i got one for my 2010. i remember getting one for the 04 and SPM. the 2010 key is completely different. its grooved on the inside making the old "bounce the tumblers until they fall into place" lock pick method obsolete.

 

Then what is the significance of the 5-digit number on the VIN card?

 

It's the key number for the mechanical key that matches the physical lock tumbler. That's not something that can be programmed in to the car.

The fact that the fobs have individual numbers means that you can delete a lost/stolen fob and it will no longer work with the car, but all other fobs will. If you lose a physical key you have to have all new locks and keys for the same level of protection. This is not generally a problem on the Prius, for the one time I've had to use the mechanical key it's set the alarm off. (Remote entry wasn't working.) The immobilizer prevents the car from being driven if the thief only has the physical key and not the fob, or a deactivated fob.

 

Most of these wireless key systems require a key transfer from the fob to base unit during initial programming. The fobs are made so that they only emit the key during the first few presses. Once the fob gets past initial operation, there is no way to force it to send its key to the base unit. Obviously this is done for security.

Tom

 

It's my impression that the Remote entry and Smart entry systems are actually only one system. The extra feature of Smart entry is that the car transmits an "Are you there key number x?", and remote "x" replies as if an unseen button has been pressed. The LED on the keyfob blinks when the recognition occurs, just as it does when you press a button. It doesn't blink when you use another car's keyfob.

 

Alright give me the "nerd" Gold Medal. I read the fine print of the 2010 Toyota Prius Brochure. You need a magnifying glass and the eyes of an eagle. HOWEVER, you can't say Toyota didn't warn you about the cost of the fob...I quote from the footnotes under features: "Because the transponder chip is embedded in the key or Smart Key Fob, it can be costly to replace. If you lose a key or Smart Key Fob, your Toyota dealer can help. Alternatively, you can find a qualified independent locksmith to perform high-security key services by consulting your local Yellow Pages or by contacting www.aloa.org.

If you read the entire footnote, and I have, because I have no life, it explains that the key and fob are part of the entire engine immobilizer state of the art anti-theft system.

I think this is Toyotas way of saying "It's not just a key".

I hope this helped because now I need corrective optic laser surgery. Not only did Toyota print the footnotes incredibly small, but they chose a shade of print that seems to disappear and fade randomly at least to my tired eyes.

 

But the numbers for my Prius on the Metal tag and the VIN card are different! Why so?