New VW TDI Commercial disses PRIUS

My dad had a TDI Jetta that I had to borrow from time to time - Had the nastiest smell in it - it reminded me of when I used to melt crayola crayons on the radiators in elementary school - strangely he was a VW fan boy and just couldn't seem to smell it

 

Maybe it's like my black friends telling me white people smell like bologna. I have no clue what they are talking about but they swear by it. Maybe VWs and VW fan boys are like that. LOL

 

I know of some early 2000's Jettas and Golfs with over 300k and a couple over 400k miles with no major work.

It's probably a better comparison to compare two more closely related cars to cut down on all the variables between different models. Camry vs Camry Hybrid, or Civic vs Civic Hybrid would be better comparisons than Prius vs Matrix. The Camry Hybrid weighs ~250lbs more than the Camry I4, or ~120lbs more than the Camry V6. The difference between the Civic and Civic Hybrid is ~50lbs.

Maybe it was diesel fuel? That stuff can linger for a long time. I'm probably used to it by now and don't notice it anymore. But I did when I first got the car.

 

How many miles are they getting out of clutches typically? That's an honest question, I've wondered what is typical...and not for a car with 90% highway miles as the TDI owner claims seem to almost entirely represent. I'm wondering what something with a 50/50 mix might expect, driven sportily like they bray about. My 240 clutch went at about 80K of very hard work, and I replaced it with a much beefier one to match the performance mods it had.

One of the things that bothers me about many TDI claims is that they tend to skew heavily towards vehicles with vastly more highway miles than the average vehicle. Many of these folks go on about driving 100K miles or so before they had brake work. That tells me for certain that they are driving mostly highway in a highly "non-sporty" fashion...despite their claims to the contrary.

 

My TDI has 184K miles of roughly 25% City / 75% highway driving.

I have the original clutch and front brake pads.

Parts I have replaced:

• Glow Plug Harness ------- 102K miles
• Glow Plugs (4) ----------- 106K miles
• Rebuild Suspension **---- 112K miles
• Rear Brake Pads --------- 138K miles

** Bilstein struts & shocks, upper strut bearings, lower control arm bushings, outer tie rods, alignment.

Just a note, the Jetta has incredibly thick brake pads. The pads are at least twice as thick as any other pads I've had on my other cars.

I drive my cars in what I consider to be a sporty manner. However, that doesn't mean that I use the brakes all the time. I try to maintain speed when going through curves and around corners. This actually leads to less brake wear and higher fuel economy than the typical driver that slows to the speed on the yellow caution sign, goes around the corner, then accelerates back to 55 mph.

Now that I have moved from rural eastern Tennessee to suburban Alabama there is little "sporty" driving to be had. I still carry more speed around corners and exit ramps but in general my pace is limited by the drivers around me.

 

Bob; i agree that its puzzling to me that noise, pollution and smoke is a desirable thing here. the VW only beats the Prius in the amount of "bad air" it creates. be it exhaust or tire smoke.

 

Then hybrid would be at disadvantage because the car was not designed to be a hybrid from ground up. Possible weight and space saving could not be taken advantage of.

That's why I chose dedicated models. The Toyota Avensis non-hybrid cousin in Europe with 1.8 liter engine weights 3,252 lbs.

 

My Clutch didn't make it past 60Kmi, it didn't even wear out the Dual mass flywheel grenaded. The rear brakes where replaced at 75Kmi. and it still had the original fronts when i sold it.

 

But how badly do they dust? IIRC, I've read that brake linings in Euro cars must have a certain amount of graphite or carbon to be fully ECE-compliant.

I know of a few people running Mintex or PBR pads to get around the dusting issues.

 

There's diesel hybrids out on the roads now - as buses using either the GM/Allison E-Drive or BAE Systems HybriDrive systems. The GM system is very, very similar to our Prii - even with the eCVT concept. It's capable of serial and parallel operation. Even the battery pack is sourced from Panasonic EV. The engine that powers the bus isn't changed, still a 8+ liter Cummins or CAT.

The BAE Systems version OTOH is different in the fact that it is limited to serial operation - however this allows BAE/Orion Bus Industries to use a Cummins ISB 5.9L or 6.7L I6 instead of the usual ISL 9.8L or ISM 10.8L engine. Instead of a NiMH battery pack, BAE decided to use lead-acid batteries but they are offering Li-Ion as an option now.

 

I've not had any issues with excessive dust. I only wash my car a couple times a year and I've never noticed any dust buildup on the wheels like some cars you see where the front wheels are almost black from dust.

I get way more dust on my motorcycle's wheels which are a huge pain to clean. I get around that by only washing it twice a year.

 

The Prius doesn't have a tachometer, but I don't think my gas engine ever revs up very high (my guess, 5k). Even when it does as when I floor it, I feel no torque or dramatic power, just increased noise.

So, wouldn't it make more sense to use a more efficient engine with higher torque and horsepower, and program the eCVT to maintain the RPMs to maximize time spent in the highest range of the torque curve (which should be high and broad in a direct-injection diesel system)?

The fact that Gen3's are more fuel efficient due to increased torque/hp of the 1.8L engine may support the idea of using diesel in a true hybrid sense.

 

How much more efficient are these diesel hybrid buses?

 

High RPM is a relative term.

The 2009 TDI redlines at 4500 RPM
It makes peak torque at 1750 RPM
So the TDI reaches peak torque at only 39% of redline

The 2009 Prius redlines at 5000 RPM
It makes peak torque at 4200 RPM
So the Prius reaches peak torque at 84% of redline.

 

OK, I'm still trying to understand. Fuel efficiency is multifactorial, but generally the higher the rpm, the more fuel used, right? So if you have enough torque and hp at lower engine RPMs, you should save fuel.

The electric motor in our gas Prii is augmenting torque and hp in a sense to help reduce the need for the engine to rev up to 4200 RPM. And the Gen3's have more torque/hp to further obviate the need to rev high. So doesn't it follow then that replacing the gas engine with a diesel would be better? Or am I thinking about this incorrectly?

 

I believe GM Allison hybrid bus is 2-Mode. It is mechanically more complex than HSD because it uses two sets of PSD and 4 clutches.

 

Yes in general the higher the RPM the more fuel is used. However, an engine is operating most efficiently at peak torque. It is getting the most work / unit of fuel.

That is why pulse and glide works. A person pulses by accelerating to a set speed at peak torque, then glides with the engine off, coasting down to a certain speed. Then they repeat. Doing this is more efficient than just driving along a a set speed and lower RPM.

A diesel hybrid would be more efficient than a gasoline hybrid just because diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines. In addition diesel fuel has more energy per gallon so that is a built in 15% improvement in fuel economy.

So if the goal is highest fuel economy a diesel hybrid is superior to a gasoline hybrid. That is why all the prototypes build for the Partnership for Next Generation Vehicles were diesel hybrids. However, selling a car the public is more difficult than hitting engineering goals. The problem with diesel hybrids is the increased cost and expensive exhaust treatments needed to make diesel vehicles pass emission requirements.

Some automakers have diesel hybrids planned for production, PSA (Peugeot Citroen) being one of them:

PSA Peugeot Citroën planning diesel hybrid for 2011

This is easier in Europe because diesel vehicles are very popular and EU diesel emission requirements are not as strict as those in the US.

 

And Diesel is cheaper than Gasoline (petrol).

 

In some countries yes. The price difference between diesel and petrol varies from country to country.

 

Per the Allison brochure, it doesn't mention 2-mode architecture.