Transport - not a "car"

Sorry Bob, I consider myself a mild car nut. I'm about the car and the journey.

 

Pat, I don't see how we can use the modifier "mild" when referring to your nuttiness. I suppose if we restrict it to only the portion relating to cars it might be okay.

Tom

 

Hi Bob,

I think you're right. My brother-in-law is totally about the "feel" of the car. When I mentioned I was considering a Prius, he was like "you might as well give up driving all together". Fuel econ isn't a consideration for the "car" types.

That sure wasn't the case when fuel hit $1.50/L up here in Canada though, he was crying

 

I don't know, Bob. Maybe when you wake up you'll think differently on the subject.

I do like to drive the Prius -- I always have. Truthfully, though, and more along the lines of your thoughts, it isn't about the vroom. It isn't just transportation, though, either.

I think most of us really like the engineering and the gadgetry as well as the fuel economy. The fun part of the driving experience is finding out that it all still works. It is fun (to me, that is) to be driving up an incline, going about 43 mph, and finding out that I'm getting a constant FE of around 70.

The real fun these days is trying to find out what makes the 2010 so different. We are getting to experience the new car and are making little discoveries on a regular basis. The fun is multiplied by sharing it here on PriusChat.

To a certain extent, I think you are correct, but I don't think the title "Transportation" does it justice.

 

I'm not so sure. I love driving. I used to love going off road in my old 4x4 truck. Driving is just fun.

That said, I've just never been drawn to muscle cars; fast, loud gas-guzzlers. Even my 4x4 was at her best when she helped me reach a remote trout stream.

I look at it this way: the "car enthusiast" cars are more like boxing while the Prius is more like Aikido. Both martial arts, but with profound differences between them. One is louder and causes more damage, one is quieter and more subtle. Or, I don't know, motorboat vs. sailboat? Neither one is really better, they're just different.

I grew up around car people, autoramas, kustomizers and all of that. The bug never really bit me, but I know what they're all about. That, however, does not mean I don't get excited about cars or driving. The Prius is just a different, but hardly a cold, impersonal transportation unit.

Hey, George Barris just kustomized one. Make of that what you will.

 

True, perhaps, in general, but it is a well know fact that sailboats are better than motorboats.

Tom

 

I agree! And I like Aikido much better than boxing. Pulse and glide is a true Aikido technique. It was this whole brute force vs. subtle skill thing, as well as discord vs. harmony or light side vs. dark side of the Force. In retrospect, I'm not sure it worked to convey my point. hwell:

 

I agree with you - I've owned about 61 cars, have had everything from Alfa Romeos to muscle cars, and have built some great race cars. I love my Prius because I *am* a Car Guy. The Prius is a very high performance car - the performance happens to be maximum mileage rather than fastest 0-60. Car and Driver have mentioned this a couple of times. Real Car Nuts tend to like the Prius for what it is. In fact, if you just want transportation there are probably less involving, cheaper (over the life cycle) alternatives for pure transporation.

 

This is an interesting thread, Bob.

I've only had my 2009 since March, but I really like driving it! Sometimes I actually look for errands to do just so that I can drive it. As such, when I read about those who don't like it's road manners, I feel like they must be talking about some other vehicle!.

• Some here on the forums have complained that it is not "quiet" enough inside. True, it is just a four cyclinder ICE, and you can hear that. And the four cylinder can sound a little rough when pushed. But it does not seem any louder than many others. In fact, because of the HSD, unless I'm accelerating quickly, I'd say that it's quieter than most cars with 4 cylinder engines. Maybe Toyota has added extra sound insulation for the 2009s?
• Overall the road noise is lower than other new cars from Kia, Toyota, and Honda that I tested on the same day that we drove the Prius. In fact, in most situations, it seems much quieter to me than most mid sized cars that I've driven. I don't know if because it's a 2009 and Toyota has made continual improvements, or because it is a package 5. Also, I don't even have any of the dashboard squeeks that others reported when their previous year G2s were new.
• I think that the ride is very good for a car this size. Compared to the Kia Elantra that we test drove, there is no comparison. The Prius does a much better job of isolating the passenger compartment from road imperfections. Almost feels like a small luxury car.

Granted, with the stock Integritys the car doesn't feel really stable in high speed turns. But as others reported, this usually improves when better tires are used.

I can only imagine that the G3s are an improvement on a vehicle that I already think is really fun to drive.


Just my 2 cents.

 

I'm getting a 2010 Prius and I LOVE to drive. My only other car has been a 1999 Plymouth Neon and it has 265,000 miles on it. I've driven a Gen 2 Prius and I can understand what "car nuts" are criticizing about steering, etc. Okay, my Neon's not a muscle car - it's one of the vast majority of cars on the road that are not performance cars.

And so is the Prius. If we're only going to classify cars into two extremes - jocks versus nerds - then a lot of cars are going to fall into the nerd category.

That being said, a lot of the vitriol directed at Prius and hybrid owners is not really about the car. It's a stereotype about who drives the car and what they think the car represents.

 

I love to drive cars, and over the years have owned some great ones (Porsches, BMWs, Mercedes/AMG, etc.). I would/could not have bought a Prius--or any car--if I wasn't going to enjoy the driving experience.

When I test drove a few 2009s, I was left underwhelmed so waited for the 2010. When the 2010s arrived, I took 2 fairly long test drives and was very happy with the driving experience. A week into Prius ownership I'm still very happy with the driving experience.

 

I try never to speak for an entire group. I agree though that a lot of the criticism I most often hear about The Prius driving experience I just don't understand. I guess I'm a realist to an extent. The Prius, and Toyota's Hybrid system in general was designed to offer low emissions and great fuel economy in congested stop and go traffic, urban and suburban enviroments. That's the enviroment I most often find myself driving. So to be honest I don't really understand the criticism when it comes to 0-60 times, or precision cornering, or road feel feedback. That's all nice, I understand that people enjoy those qualities but for me, I don't often have the opportunity to drive any car in a situation where I'm going carefree around winding roads or need to go race car fast. For safety reasons, and for times I take the freeway of course I want a car that is capable of safely reaching and maintaining those speeds but I only need that for those specific times and The Prius IS capable of being a highway vehicle. Also Unfortunately, as population increases even the Freeways and Highways often become less about speed and more about surviving a traffic jam and inching along in traffic, which again is a "driving experience" inwhich The Prius excels. Put me in a traffic jam, and quiet, serene and saving gas is exactly what I want from my auto.

Sometimes when I read these "Extreme" negative reviews of The Prius I think back to what it must of been like around 100+ years ago as the Horseless Carriage slowly replaced Horse and Buggy. I'm sure the first adopters of the Horseless Carriage were ridiculed. Riding around in a new fangled contraption! It was so different. But ultimately it and it's evolution were the future. When I read these negative reviews I often think of the same thing. Criticism that The Prius is different than most ICE cars and Ha, Ha, Ha, it doesn't drive REALLY FAST, or Accelerate like a BMW, or offer road feel feedback like a Porche, ....yes, it's different. It's a Hybrid. Different way of creating momentum. But I think The Prius is different in sort of the same way the Horseless Carriage was different from Horse and Buggy. Ultimately it's inevitable, the only debate is over timeline. But eventually fossil fuel resources will dwindle to the point that for the majority driving a standard fossil fuel automobile will become cost prohibitive. Which is exactly what is happening when Fuel get's up to the $4.00 dollar a gallon range. When that happens I see a LOT of Prius being sold and very little criticism of it's inability to be a sports car.

Times are changing, and when Critics level the "criticism" that The Prius should be called something other than an automobile, I don't know if they aren't accidently correct, in the same way the eventually The Horseless Carriage became called The Automobile.

 

I don't yet own a Prius; the best I can say is that I rented one when I went on vacation to San Diego last year. I think you need to have owned several cars prior to the Prius so you learn what it is you don't like in a car.

Besides the mileage here are the things I liked:

1. A very quiet ride -- maybe the roads are really good down there in San Diego, but I heard very little road noise, and I never heard the engine unless I pushed it. The car just glided effortlessly along. I need a car to be quiet enough that I can listen to my audio books while commuting without turning the volume control up loud enough to hurt my ears.

2. No jitter in the steering wheel while the car poked its way through a major traffic jam; I don't know about other people but constant steering wheel jitter really bugs me while I'm sitting in stop and go traffic. The down side is I did feel a shudder when the engine turned on every time I touched the gas pedal after the battery fell to two bars. Next time, I'll try out the "B" selection to see if I can keep the motor on long enough to charge the battery to see if I can avoid this situation.

3. I like the idea that every time I hit the brakes I'm not wearing them out. I hate brakes that warp about six weeks after you do a brake job.

4. I've learned that automatic transmissions are problematic on most cars. Either they shift with an annoying clunk, or there's a long delay and your motor revs like crazy while shifting down. The Prius doesn't have a transmission and that's just fine by me.

 

Nobody even mentioned the feeling you get, being part of the solution, instead of part of the problem. It's the thrill I get whenever I pass (or get passed by) a 600 HP King Cab V10 Pick-up with dual exhausts as big as sewer pipes with no load in the bed, being driven to work by one guy in a baseball cap, pedal to the metal, trying to burn up just as much of that nasty old petroleum as he fast as he can. Maybe my Testosterone levels are low, like the latest dinner-time drug commercial warns? You know the one, it runs right after the Viagra commercial.
But I gave up driving muscle cars about 30 years ago--during the FIRST oil crisis.
A bonus--fewer tickets and accidents.

 

I know I don't go to/travel to as many places in and around my state and region as I might if I were in a really fuel-efficient vehicle. I felt 'guilty' burning fuel, esp. when I'm only getting 19-20 mpg. And yes, I guess I'm also cheap in that I don't particularly want to go through a lot of gasoline when it's over $2.50/gallon. I feel like once I have the Prius (next yr) then new travel destinations will open up as it will be both cost-effective AND efficient to use the vehicle and the guilt will dissipate.

 

I try to avoid that type of thinking. When you start going around saying "I'm part of the solution, You're part of the Problem" that's when the accusation of being "smug" get's leveled. Also why does having a Hybrid viewpoint or not wanting to burn large quantities of fuel have any connection to testosterone levels? That's another totally bias, wrong stereotype. Just because you drive a Prius or want to drive a Prius doesn't mean your Testosterone levels are low. Just because you want to drive a monster truck doesn't mean they are high. No, driving a Prius only means you are driving a Prius and adopting the positives and negatives of owning a Prius. Perpetuating stereotypes of self awarded superiority complexes and/or lower testosterone levels is just wrong. That IS part of the problem...we have to move away from connecting what we drive, and how we drive to stereotypes concerning womanhood, manhood and our value as humanbeings.

I do however admit I wish Toyota would "beef" up the new advertising. Japan gets Superman? We get Faiery Gnomes and Singing Trees? I'm not insecure about my manhood and driving a Prius, but it doesn't help when Toyota advertises Prius in a light that makes Bambi look like a snuff film.

I like The Prius, and I like the enviromentally positive aspects of it's day to day operation coupled with great gas mileage. However I don't like the adoption of the "Were Prius people and were better than you" type of thinking.

The truth also is the wheel is still in spin, todays solution is tomorrows outdated technology. What if 15 years from now we find the "solution" isn't Hybrid or Electric but Hydrogen Fuel Cell? Or some as of yet unknown technology. I don't want to start a debate about specific applications just pointing out that when you define yourself as the solution and almost everyone else as the problem your setting yourself up for a fall.

 

OK, so you can't smoke the tires, or make the passenger smack her head on the side window in a quick corner. That doesn't reduce the Prius to the level of 'transport appliance'. It's still fun to drive - even more fun with a few basic improvements - and I've become a convert to smooth and quiet. If you want all-out performance at the expense of comfort, get a motorcycle. Anything with four wheels becomes a pylon.

 

Well stated. So much of this chatter is between groups of enthusiasts who are, nearly by definition, rather myopic. We are so drawn to what we like we easily can miss the broader perspective.

And it is the stereotype that gets attacked fairly often. Just reread the article in the "thetruthaboutcars" post and look for it in the writing. (Again, I like the style and find the piece fairly entertaining, even if it misses a few things; I just wish it were aimed at something other than the 2010 Prius!)