Toyota Doubts WideSpread Acceptance of Plug-In Hybrids

There is a high percentage of potential buyers lives in apartments and condos that does not have a garage to plugin.

 

PRICE is by far the biggest concern.

It's nice that they the battery-packs are becoming big & robust enough for mainstream use, but how much they cost to produce is just plain too expensive still.
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I think it must be extra cost. If a plug-in hybrid were available, it might make home-based solar photovolatic more econimcally feasible. In my case, average electricity consumption is on the order of 7 kwh/day. Thus, solar PV makes no economic sense. However, I think that would change if I were charging a car.

Of course, this would also depend on the arrangement with the local power company. Currently in CA, the utility does not buy the extra energy generated by a home PV system.

 

CE Otsuka said Lithium costs 3-4 times more than NiMH.

 

Let's get some on the market and find out.

 

I've always been of this opinion as well. I'm of the firm belief that plugins will be oddities until the price drops such that Joan and John Lunchpail can drive them affordably.

The 'traditional' hybrids will be mainstream for a long time to come IMO. NiMH is so cost effective now and so dependable that there's going to have to be a HUGE cost savings for any plugin to make inroads.

Then as noted above there are huge sections of the population that simply can't use a plugin vehicle of any kind. That's not the case with a 'traditional' hybrid.

 

Ok Guys,

What is the real energy cost per mile of plug-in vs. using gasoline???

If a gasoline powered Prius gets 50 MPG and gas costs $ 2.50 / gallon (current price here in Northern California), then the fuel (energy) cost is 5 cents per mile.

Now here in Northern California, PG&E charges residential customers using a graduated pricing formula. Our baseline costs is only 11.531 cents per KWH (Kilo-Watt Hour) for the first 378 KWH per month. However we, like most consumers, use more than our baseline allocation. Now if we had a plug-in Prius, we would consume electricity (charge the batteries) at a premium rate and would pay PG&E 25.974 cents per KWH. So the question is, "in typical driving, how many KWH are required for a plug-in Prius to drive 1 mile?"

Keith

 

yep .

and its based on real life figures from people driving these plugins. Now, i am sure that at begining, a lot of new buyers will be educated and willing to charge it properly, but once pool of those dries up, this actually shows how many people would use it as they should.


and inactual cities like europe and asia, it would be impossible to charge them as people dont live in houses but apartments.

 

There is a sizable, viable market for those who would use it properly. There certainly are a bunch of lazy drivers, but there are a bunch of smart drivers just waiting for the auto industry to provide something they can use. It just gets old hearing how "everyone" falls in the mold of the inert masses....and how an electric or PHEV will fail.

 

They are nuts! Plug-In Hybrid makes the most sense to me. Have you watched that rather pathetic slideshow of the Tesla going to Yosemite? It's painful to watch a $90K hot looking roadster forced to nurse its way along a 150 mile trip. Don't get me wrong, it is a fantastic car, but all electric is severely limited in range, while the PIH would have great range AND the ability to do short commutes on all electric power. What's not to love about the concept except the $$ part of the equation.

Lee

 

well, i really really REALLY hate to say this, but i have to agree. the expense of having 3 systems is simply too much. its one thing to have battery-assisted power like in the Pri to get better gas mileage and lets face it, as we all know, just doing that is no easy feat... for proof, ask the other companies that have tried to copy but have failed, some in spectacular fashion.

another thing is the fact that decent battery technology struggles to provide an acceptable range but still at a premium price, so before we look at plug in technology we pretty much have to have a plug in network first.

so we are looking currently at a solution that will be north of $30,000 which means it a niche product only.

now with a possible emerging technology provided by eestor and others, this might make the entire conversation academic.

previous to now, i have always said i would accept as little as a 10 mile EV range simply because it works for me, but i began to realize the cost of even that little and how unique my situation is and that prices will not be acceptable unless it can be marketed to a much greater number of people. so all in all, i have to agree, until a major technological breakthru in charge storage comes through, its simply technology that will be next to Tesla, cool but simply out of the range of average people

 

If (and when) gas goes above $4 a gallon, people will get less lazy real fast once they find out that even a short range plug-in hybrid (10 miles) will get more than 75mpg for most drivers. Throw gas shortages (gas lines) into the equation, and drivers will be even more motivated to only have to fill up one a month if they own a short range plug-in hybrid.

As for the cost to 'fill up' a plug-in hybrid. Typical cost assuming that you recharge overnight will be less than the equivalent of $1 a gallon of gas. Drivers miss the good old days of gas being cheaper than $1 a gallon. Well, with a plug-in hybrid, the days of cheap 'gas' will be back.

 

Can you elaborate on that please?
Can it zero out your meter consumption?

 

And, even if they owned those apartments, or homes, garages are rarity from what I have seen.

 

The Catholic church didn't believe Copernicus, and felt the idea that the earth was not the center of the Solar System would never catch on either.

Time will tell...

 

It's all about price, not the technology. The price of gas, and the price of the car.
$4 gas again, you won't be able to steal a hybrid. The cheaper the gas, the more important the hybrid price. It has nothing to do with plug-ins, batteries, etc. It is marketing 101.

My hunch is the government will eventually steer the market to hybrids in the next few years. That means don't spend big bucks on an ICE car now.