Better Place

After seeing the battery swap video I have even lower expectations for Better Places. If they think they can get all EV manufactures to adopt that huge battery assembly they are crazy.

 

It is huge. It looks like the have copied the S.M.E.D concept used in quick change tooling. It is not a bad concept to be able to change quickly and accurately. The problem is the size. It will dominate the underside of the vehicle and restrict design choice. Manufacturers will have to design their vehicle around that particular battery. Part of the advantage an EV has over an ICE is the freedom to move components around the vehicle. A designer can move the battery around to effect weight balance and center of gravity. Better Place's battery takes that flexibility away. I was expecting a battery pack about 1/4 of that size.

I also doubt most manufacturers will buy into the whole battery swap idea. I still believe that manufacturers will want a proprietary battery that they can use to differentiate their vehicle from others.

 

If they did that, Better Place would have to carry way more batteries at their swap stations because each manufacturer would have a different assembly.

 

This has been my point all along: There will already certainly be batteries of different capacities. If you add to that batteries of different styles, pretty soon BP has to stock every swap station with numerous different battery types, and enough of every type to meet the highest possible demand, or else people will find their battery type unavailable.

Or they might have to go to a reservation system: You'd go on line and order the batteries you need for a given trip a week ahead of time so they could shuttle batteries around (by truck!). You'd have to plan your trips in advance, just like a plane trip, and buy trip cancellation insurance so that if you had to cancel a trip you wouldn't be charged for the battery BP had ready for you that you didn't use.

Or we could have fast charging instead: Voltages are standard, and plug styles are standard for each voltage and maximum amperage: a standard plug for 110 v 20 a; a standard plug for 110 v 25 a; a standard plug for 220 v 30 a; a standard plug for 220 v 50 a; etc. Let's say the station offers 110 v; 220 v; and 440 v each wired to withstand 100 amps, they'd probably only need six socket types per station to accommodate all cars. Fewer, really, since the lower-end plugs would never be used for fast charging.

 

I believe that also. However, the same was true of different PC busses, operating systems, and user interfaces at the dawn of the PC age. Now look at what we are stuck with. If BP succeeds, then the tables are turned. BP battery capabilities can influence which cars are supported and which don't last.

If I had to place a bet, it's that BP will not succeed in the US. But this is due to strictly economic effects, not any technology limitation of changing batteries, even many different types.

 

Better Place has acknowledged that they would have to stock at each station a number of different batteries, and I think that's just for different models of the Renault-Nissan vehicles - 8 or so are in the works. More manufacturers could possible mean even more battery formats.

For some reason they aren't concerned about this.

 

That simply won't work. 8 different batteries! Think of the massive amount of storage needed to store that many different battery configurations. You would need thousands of batteries to replace the typical gas station. The inventory could be reduced if the batteries were fast charged. Of course that negates the point of swapping batteries!

For some reason they aren't concerned about this.[/QUOTE]
That is because they are selling hopes and dreams not actual working solutions.

 

Battery swapping is of course just one way to refuel an EV. Swapping will be a rare event for most drivers. Most people won't even need to charge at work or the store driving cars with a 100+ mile range. So one BSS wouldn't have to replace a typical gas station.

Plus not all the batteries swapped out would be completely dead, they just wouldn't have enough energy for so-and-so driver and his/her particular, immediate needs. So some batteries wouldn't need the full x number of hours to charge because the wouldn't be depleted and they'd be back in service sooner.

Plus not all customers would need a completely full battery from the station either.

There are a lot of interesting ways to manage this when you have a system wide network of incredibly sophisticated software keeping track of customers' needs and the BP infrastructure.

I think BP has done their homework on the feasibility of this. If some car companies don't want to be involved that's fine, but they may come around if things start to look up for Renault-Nissan.

 

If battery swapping is rare why even bother? What benefit does BP give a customer if they will normally charge at home? After all, if the customer charges at home they pay their electric company for electricity plus BP for miles. So $0.02 per mile for electricity plus $0.08 per mile for BP. So by using BP's service typically you will pay 5x more per mile.

If that is the case then as Daniel said, BP is just hiding a battery rental fee in a per mile charge. BP's plan targets those that can't afford to purchase a battery.

I also doubt that BP's customer will rarely use a swap station. If it really only takes 1 minute why wouldn't they swap?. Why would they pay more to charge at home than just use BP battery swap service that they are paying for?

 

The option to change plans or go far/farther without waiting 4 hours.

The BP charging point at home shouldn't be any different than the one at the mall. So you only pay BP, not BP AND your electric company. The latter would be stupid and completely unnecessary.

They wouldn't pay more at home (see above). Man you just answered your own question. No business would do what you're proposing - have customers pay more at home.

Furthermore, Agassi says that the typical driver gases up about once a week. And he wants to make his system more convenient than that, so he has already publicly promised that if you need to battery swap more than 50 times in a year, BP will cut you a cheque for your trouble.

 

The extended range only works if you are "within network" A BP customer would only be able to travel to places within BP's network of battery swap stations. BP claims you will never be more that 20 miles from a swap station. The US has 46,837 miles of Interstate and 115,319 miles of US highways. Does anyone besides Fibb believe that BP will install 8100 swap stations before the first BP contract is sold?

The reality is that in the US BP will not be more than a regional company at first. They simply can't put in enough stations to ahead of time like they could in Israel or Hawaii. So again BP's customer aren't better served because they will still be limited to a metro area.

 

So BP is going to install a separate meter in my garage and they pay the electric bill? Or will they charge me a different rate per mile if I charge at home? I ask because BP has been very clear that you will be charge per mile and you can pay per mile or buy bundles of miles per month.

(I suspect cars with BP's batteries won't have a onboard charger so if you wanted to charge at home you would need to lease a charger from them)

Really? If I swap more than 50 times per year I get a check!! As a BP customer I would then be sure to only use swap stations. I can see it now. My wife drives back and forth work 5 days (75 miles) I swap on Friday evening to get ready for the weekend and then again Sunday afternoon or Monday morning. That is 104 swaps per year so I should get a big check. Or will BP claim that I didn't "need" to swap my battery so I don't get a check? They might claim I should have charged at home so they wouldn't have to pay for the electricity. Of course the battery usage I described above is about the worst thing you can do to a battery but hey, it isn't my battery right?

 

Right.

 

Another solution to "range anxiety": What if instead of 'swapping" batteries, you could "add" an extra battery if you were planning a longer trip?

Buy an Ev with 100 mile range which works for 98% of your needs.
Extra battery would fit in the spare tire bay (could be one size fits all).
You would rent extra battery for longer trips.

Another solution to "range anxiety": Second car equal "perfect range extender". Just requires some planning as to which car to drive. We need to accept that EVs will be at best 1-2% of all US vehicles in the next 10 years. MOST EVs will be owned by families with more than one car.

 

This is a real snag in the BP plan. It gives an incentive to not charge at home.

Hold on now!!! You've said that BP will be supplying renewable energy from its own windmills and/or PV arrays. Are you now saying that BP will install it's own electric grid wires to the home of every customer??? I sure doubt it!

Wouldn't they? No business? On the contrary, normal businesses charge as much as they can.

So that few if any drivers will charge at home. They'll go to the swap station so they can rack up "swaps" and qualify for the check.

Oops. JSH beat me to it.

The BP plan just does not work.

One additional note about swap stations and battery availability: Unless they require you to reserve your "swap" well in advance, so they can truck batteries around to meet orders, swap stations need to have as many batteries of every type as they will need on the busiest day of the year. Shunting demand off the swap stations and into the homes for overnight charging will reduce the number of batteries that must be on hand, but does not do so proportionally, due to the statistical nature of random demand. If everyone always uses swapping, there are random fluctuations in demand, but those fluctuations increase as more people do some of their charging at home, because there will be occasional days when a high percentage of customers want to swap, as on days when lots of people travel. Therefore BP would still need to maintain a high level of inventory of batteries for swapping even with most people doing most of their charging at home. And if BP requires advance reservation for swapping, the inconvenience will push customers away from BP and over to competing fast-charge companies.

 

HEY!!! That's what I do now! My fully-electric Zap Xebra has a 40-mile range. My stinker (2004 Prius) can drive all the way across the country if I remember to stop at gas stations when necessary. I drive the Xebra when I can, which is nearly every day, and I drive the stinker when I must, which is 2 or 3 times a month. If my electric Porsche turns up as hoped for, my electric range will increase to 100 or so miles, and I'll drive the stinker a few times a year, mostly for hiking trips to Canada or for when I'm going to park at the airport and don't want to leave the Porsche in a public parking lot for weeks at a time.