Houston Press "Investigates" Safety Record of Toyota Prius

Something else I see little mention of is the nifty power button. If some one is that scared of there Prius, press the power button, count to 3 and presto... no more power. It's a rather nice feature, little talked about. Reminds me of the ACPI power override on laptops.

If your going slow enough you also get a nifty emergency stop for free (parking claw comes down at low speed)

11011011

 

The only reason they're bashing the Prius is because it's popular. Look at all the people that bash Apple and their iPhones and iPods, we don't see many people attacking Microsoft for their Zune, which is basically the same as an iPod. Why? Because it's not as popular. If there was a humungous gas-guzzler SUV that was as wildy popular as the Prius is, then they would find something faulty with it, too.

Now I didn't count the number of claims of "mishaps" in this 8 page crap-fest but I'd say that the people experiencing these issues are part of a very small minority of all Prius owners.

It's the press, they'll do whatever they can to illicit reaction.

 

I wouldn't do that while moving, you will wreck the transmission or at least the parking pawl. I think the parking pawl will engage when the power goes off even if you are moving fast. To make this work you must press and hold the power button and if your car is doing 100km/h in city traffic 3 seconds will feel like a week with only 1 hand on the wheel.
Better idea, push the "gear selector" to the neutral position for a second, no more power to the wheels.

 

Village Voice Media says it all. The Denver mention is Westword, the local free press. To sell advertising (their only revenue stream) they need circulation. To get circulation they attempt to remain controversial and inflamatory.

When the IRL was running a street circuit race here in Denver in the early 1990's, Westword was foaming at the mouth over this "display" of excessive horsepower, worshiping of the Evil Automobile, and "waste of gas" and adding to the downtown pollution. I started to write them and mention that Indy cars run on Methanol, and that, in truth, the race could be seen as a positive example of alternative, clean fuels. But why bother? In the end I enjoyed the race and ignored Westword.

I won't bother reading the article mentioned in this thread - I have more to do with my time than waste it on a Village Voice story (nothing, but NOTHING is worse than a once-socially concious organization like Village Voice going Corporate like this - at least companies like Exxon Mobile are open and honest about what and who they are and don't hide revenue generation behind a facade of "responsibility").

 

Yep, going to neutral is better, but then again, so is taking your foot off the gas, or making sure that the floor mats are hooked. I imagine that most people fail the "go-to-neutral" bit since it takes about a 500ms delay as well. More like shift and hold at neutral. Most new drivers just "tap" the shifter to neutral which will not shift you out of drive. The power button will work at any speed. The parking pawl only engages at low speed (below 7 mph). At higher speed power cuts out and you go to ACC, if you press the power button again, you go to IG-ON and get power steering back. Causes no damage assuming you proceed to stop the car and don't use it to coast for the next 30 miles.

I find it a trivial feature but a neat thing to know about. I can't think of any logical reason to need it other than to simulate the "pull the keys out of the ignition" moment that most people want to recreate in an auto emergency. I imagine it might be in some first responder literature, but I can't find it in any documentation. I suppose it might be useful if the engine catches on fire while someone is screaming down the freeway, but I'd put that likelihood up there with a meteor drooping from space and blocking the road, or sufficently low for me to not care in the slightest.

11011011

 

Not your fault especially because he appears to be monitoring PriusChat for other comments. There are those who have a disagreement but are 'in this world'; there are those whose living is tied to their profession or job; and those who live in another reality and I'm convenced Paul is in this latter group.

Over time, I've run into a few people who act this way, practically stalkers or at least social parasites. Mostly I just try to find a way to escape their company and enjoy every day that I don't see them again.

Bob Wilson

 

Actually, Prius bashing jumped to the forefront when the hollywood types starting driving them to big events around 2001 and 2002, not when it was selling in large numbers. That was later.

 

I hesitated to give this story/thread any more life, but found it amusing that this blog discovered an undisclosed conflict and then called HP out on it:

blogHOUSTON - We can be such a pain

"The story leads with complaints about the car from one Bobette Riner, who apparently has an arbitration case pending over the car. That name seemed familiar, and sure enough it popped up in a few past Houston Press pieces. Plugging it into a few more searches turned up a shared address with Richard Connelly. The longtime Houston Press staffer."

 

I'm a big, strong, mean guy. Not at all afraid of those types

 

The Houston Press is a free newspaper that people read if they have to eat alone at a restaurant or are in a waiting room somewhere. Mostly a eating establishments. No one takes it too seriously.

 

Well, this story is now circulating at my church, so I was motivated to look up some hard data.

The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration is the federal agency charged with tracking safety-related consumer complaints about cars and car seats. (All other products, is the consumer product safety commission -- try making a complaint about a car there, and they direct you to the NHTSA).

You can look up all the complaints that have been filed. I looked up the 2005 Prius (the model I own). You can search your model here:

ODI - Office of Defects Investigation

There were 10 complaints related to speed control (speed control, accelerator pedal, cruise control), and one reported injury. (The injury was in fact one of the anecdotes that made into that newspaper article.)

I calculate that as one reported speed-control-related injury in about 85,000 sales, or 0.001%. I can live with that.

For comparison, the 2005 Corolla had 7 complaints and 2 injuries. (But sold more units that year, so it's not exactly apples to apples comparison).

To the extent that anybody has systematic data about complaint rates for cars, its the NHTSA. At first glance, the systematic data suggest no particular problem. To my fellow congregant who was concerned about this issue, I offered to download the NHSTA database and do a more formal analysis if required. But at some level, when the objective data show a claimed problem rate this low, that pretty much says it all.

 

My wife experienced sudden acceleration while exiting from one motorway to another. We speculate that her knee may have accidently contacted the cruise control lever and initiated the "resume" process. Another touch on the brake solved the problem. Has anyone else had the same experience?

 

Not in 90,200 miles. I have pretty long legs but I've never hit the cruise button with them. You would have to hit the cruise control stalk and push it up with your knee for the car to accelerate in cruise control. So depending on how you wiggle yourself around it is possible but would be really awkward I think.

 

I just posted in the tech section my big safety problem with my 2006 Prius. I bought it new, take loving care of it and before yeasterday, was my pefect car. I won't repeat the post, but my Prius decided to accelerate full ICE RPM when I gently started to lift my foot from the breake while at a stop light. I immediately jammed the brake back down, the rev's stopped, tried to lift my foot again, same problem. I checked my floor mat. It was safely under my pedals (it's heavy rubber, not the factory mat).

The problem repeated until by chance I turned cruise control on and off (it was off). No idea if that helped, but the problem stopped. I had experienced this before but not so drastically.

There is no question that we have a serious safety problem that apparently Toyota is trying to cover up. There are many other reported incidents. I am bringing the care to a dealer on Monday, but not hopeful since this is hard to duplicate, and my reading indicates Toyota is stonewalling. Stay tuned.

 

Man, this article really got me worked up. It was reprinted in our local Village Media paper the Phoenix New Times as well. What a steaming pile. It was particularly annoying as the New Times actualy runs some pretty good locally written articles here usually. This seemed way out of character for them.

nylion, you may very well have a valid complaint. Your symptoms are completely different than those reported in the article though. It is feasible for something to go wrong with the electronic throttle control. Its no more or less likely to have an issue than any other vehicle's throttle control. But as you found, and several others have noted (and I've tried myself) at full throttle jamming on the brakes the brakes win hands down. It doesn't seem feasible for something to go wrong with the electronic throttle control and for the hydraulic brakes to fail and then for both to magically fix themselves a minute later. That is what would be required for the scenarios mentioned in the article. I would assume that (in combination with their having examined and pulled data from the vehicles) is why Toyota doesn't take those claims seriously. Sadly, because of those bogus claims if you do have a real issue, you are likely to face an uphill battle getting them to pay attention.

Rob

 

On the plus side, most cover articles get hundreds of comments on a normal week. This article got 10, 2 of which were mine

Here's what I sent in:

 

That pretty much covered it for me.

Regarding all cars getting "unintended acceleration" complaints, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration tracks consumer complaints related to car safety issues. I downloaded and tabulated their data for 2004-2009 (the gen II Prius years) for all complaints related to vehicle speed control. The Prius ranked 18 or so in terms of reported injuries from "unintended acceleration", which I think is pretty consistent with the volume of vehicles on the road.

NHTSA Vehicle Safety Complaint Database
Model Years 2004 - 2009
Count of complaints and injuries related to vehicle speed control
By make and model
Top 100 vehicles by number of reported injuries

Rank Make Model Complaints Injuries
1TOYOTA CAMRY 247 41
2LEXUS ES350 52 22
3JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE 80 21
4FORD ESCAPE 68 15
5HONDA ACCORD 51 13
6TOYOTA TACOMA 127 13
7FORD F 150 64 11
8MERCURY GRAND MARQUIS 43 9
9FORD MUSTANG 69 8
10HONDA CIVIC 44 8
11JEEP LIBERTY 26 8
12LEXUS ES 330 28 8
13SUZUKI GSX R1000 11 8
14TOYOTA COROLLA 34 7
15FORD EXPLORER 65 6
16HONDA CR V 9 6
17LINCOLN TOWN CAR 40 6
18TOYOTA PRIUS 42 6
19TOYOTA SIENNA 52 6
20CADILLAC CTS 11 5
21ACURA MDX 4 4
22BMW 328I 1 4
23CHEVROLET MALIBU 11 4
24FORD F150 39 4
25CHEVROLET COBALT 18 3
26DODGE DURANGO 44 3
27FORD MUSTANG GT 12 3
28JEEP COMMANDER 12 3
29JEEP LIBERTY 4X4 11 3
30LEXUS ES 12 3
31LEXUS ES330 13 3
32MAZDA TRIBUTE 33 3
33MERCEDES BENZ CLS500 1 3
34NISSAN ALTIMA 18 3
35NISSAN MAXIMA 10 3
36SUBARU FORESTER 19 3
37TOYOTA MATRIX 6 3
38TOYOTA SCION TC 3 3
39BMW 325I 6 2
40BMW X3 5 2
41CHEVROLET COLORADO 22 2
42CHRYSLER PACIFICA 22 2
43CHRYSLER PT CRUISER 8 2
44DODGE INTREPID 1 2
45FORD F 450 SD 1 2
46FORD FIVE HUNDRED 11 2
47FORD FOCUS 27 2
48FORD RANGER 17 2
49GMC CANYON 6 2
50HONDA PILOT 11 2
51HYUNDAI ACCENT 2 2
52HYUNDAI ELANTRA 11 2
53HYUNDAI XG 350 7 2
54INFINITI G35 SEDAN 9 2
55LEXUS GS300 2 2
56LEXUS LS 2 2
57LEXUS RX350 2 2
58LEXUS RX400H 7 2
59MERCEDES BENZ ML350 3 2
60MINI COOPER S 4 2
61TOYOTA CAMRY SOLARA 17 2
62TOYOTA HIGHLANDER HYBRID 1 2
63YAMAHA YZFR6 3 2
64ACURA TL 5 1
65AUDI A4 10 1
66BMW R 1200 RT 1 1
67BUICK LUCERNE 10 1
68BUICK RENDEZVOUS 6 1
69CADILLAC SRX 11 1
70CADILLAC STS 3 1
71CHEVROLET AVEO 11 1
72CHEVROLET SILVERADO 20 1
73CHEVROLET TRAILBLAZER 32 1
74CHRYSLER 300M 1 1
75CHRYSLER SEBRING 19 1
76DODGE 3500 1 1
77DODGE NEON 6 1
78DODGE RAM 1500 10 1
79DODGE RAM 2500 8 1
80FORD CROWN VICTORIA 10 1
81FORD EDGE 1 1
82FORD F250 SUPERDUTY 4 1
83FORD FREESTAR 8 1
84FORD FUSION 7 1
85GMC ENVOY 10 1
86HARLEY DAVIDSON FLHTCU 3 1
87HONDA CIVIC HYBRID 2 1
88HONDA RIDGELINE 3 1
89HONDA S2000 1 1
90HYOSUNG AQUILA 2 1
91HYUNDAI SANTA FE 49 1
92INDEPENDENCE FREEDOM EXPRESS 2 1
93INFINITI M35 3 1
94KENWORTH T800 1 1
95KIA SEDONA 20 1
96KIA SORENTO 5 1
97KIA SPORTAGE 1 1
98KYMCO AGILITY 1 1
99LEXUS IS250 5 1
100LEXUS LS430 2 1

 

This is a silly comment. If this were a common and reproducible problem, Toyota would simply fix it, not cover it up. The real issue is that the problem is very rare, and most likely originating from several unrelated causes. It is difficult if not impossible to fix a problem if you can't reproduce it on a controlled basis.

Using your logic, I will make the following statement: I think you know why your Prius has uncontrolled acceleration, but for some sinister reason you are covering it up. Perhaps you want to sue Toyota for a lot of money, so you don't want them to find and fix the problem.

That was a ridiculous and insulting statement on my part. Why would you want to do that, and why would I assume that you know the cause and won't tell? I don't. I only want to make the point that it is easy to put on a tinfoil hat and scream conspiracy. Generally there is no conspiracy. Toyota is a reputable company with good quality control. If there was a common problem with a known fix, it would have been done by now.

Tom

 

Yeah, that's one phrase to describe it