2010 invoice pricing @ edmunds

According to Edmunds, my Prius V, with Adv. Tech Package has an invoice price of 29,887, versus a list price of 32,490 at MSRP with Destination charges, while a base Prius II with no packages is $21,620 invoice, and 22,720 with MSRP, including destination!

Check it out here: 2010 Toyota Prius Pricing and Information

 

Man, the internet has everything nowadays. I don't even have pricing on it yet. I know edmunds is notoriously off on invoice pricing based on different regions though. Example: 09 Camry Hybrid. MSRP matches exactly. $32,129. Edmunds invoice: $28,819. Real invoice: $29,026. Here is the strange thing though. There isn't a hidden number that makes up the difference between the two. I checked holdback, TDA, and WFC. No combination of the three make up the difference. They are just off by a little bit. This applies to the chicago region. I can check other regions if someone wants to do a little legwork.

They aren't off by that much, so I'm not sweating it. At least now we have a pretty good idea of what it is. Good find!

 

The difference is likely a slight change in the spec of the vehicle since they first published the invoice pricing. For example, buyers of the Prius with NAV in the fall of this year will see approximately a $200 cost increase in MSRP with the addition of the USB input. I would not think that Edmunds would then come back and adjust their invoice levels to reflect this. (Just a stab here, not really certain).

 

Here is another example:

2009 Prius #6
MSRP: $27,245
Edmunds: $25,313
Real: $25,748

I want to correct myself on the previous post. I compared an old priced car vs the edmunds new car price.

Now when I do the math, Edmunds doesn't take into account your local regions advertising or the gas charge. Now it comes to within one penny. In the Chicago region, TDA is 2% of the base vehicle invoice. So eglmainz, figure that invoice to go up by about $500, give or take 20 bucks.

 

They did adjust on the camry hybrid. Don't know when, but they did. That is why I couldn't figure out the difference. Now I see it in black and white.

 

I just checked a dealer in Alexandria, VA(no idea who, but I think that one is close to your area) and they have TDA of around 2%.

God I hope the Toyota people don't get mad at me for disclosing all of this!

 

Why? It's Toyota that supplies the data to Edmunds. Think about it. Where else would such detailed info come from? Hmmmmm.

If you and I don't have it in Dealer Daily yet then where would Edmunds 'pilfer' if from. It's part of Toyota's marketing of all products.

 

Will you please post when your Dealer Daily shows allocations ? I was hoping just a few days past May 1st if we're lucky.

 

I'll be looking for a Prius II or III/w Nav out here in So Calif. Any hints of the actual invoice for us Californians?

Thanks

 

I'm sorry but I don't know what Holdback,TDA and WFC are? Could someone please explain!

 

I think I might take a stab at that for my virgin post.

TDA - Toyota District Advertising or Toyota Dealer Advertising- is a fee on the invoice/ built into the cost of the car that's ear-marked for Toyota's advertising and incentives budget. The dealer does not receive this money. It's not based on a percent of invoice, it's a charge that changes from car to car and is set by Toyota.
TDA isn't tracked by Edmunds becasue Toyota changes this figure region to region based on that region's specifc advertising budget and needs.

WFC or Wholesale Financial Reserve- are the terms, in the form of cash to the dealer in a sense, that Toyota gives you the dealer to offset the cost of "floor planning" or financing the millions of dollars of cars that are in the dealer's inventory. As a consumer, you assume the profit of the deal should pay the bill but dealerships need the assistance and Toyota recognizes this. The "reserve" as most car guys call it should not be considered in negotiations.
Reserve is based on 1% of the vehicle's base MSRP, not total MSRP. ( Total MSRP including installed options and destination ).

Holdback is cash to the dealer under the dealer's invoice price. Consumers confuse dealer cost with invoice. True dealer cost is generaly calculated as dealer invoice price ( from dealer daily, not edmunds** ) minus holdback. Historicly, dealer's used the holdback cash as facility moneys only. Sale's and management's commissions were based on a percent of gross profit generated between dealer's invoice and sale price. Today, a growing number of consumers don't believe they're paying a fair price unless their sale price is in the holdback.

So you see, these acronyms being thrown around are the terms and financial assistance that Toyota and other manufacturers pass on to dealerships to help pay the bills and offset the cost of maintaning and holding inventory. When product lines are in distress, you can negotiate into these terms, other times you can't.

** I hope to help clear up the edmunds invoice question. It looks like one dealer commented as was irritated that our prospects have better info that we do....well that's the fault of TDA! Every region will be different by a few bucks, certainly some regions may have no TDA at all. Once regional TDA is set, we'll see some updates on dealer daily!
The info on Edmunds is correct, there's really only about $1200 in mark-up in the new Prius. The good news is that Toyota built a Honda Killer and we'll sell the pants off 'em and I expect customer retention to increase as we deliver this car. We've gor a winner on our hands, no doubt. And the Fusion Hybrid? Gimme a break, read the Motor Trend comparison of the Camry Hybrid vs. Fusion. Camry's observed MPG beat the Fusion in all 3 tested category speed. Ford won the battle ( as they should ) it's the first true competition to Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive.
Back to Edmunds-- the invoice price that's posted is supposed to be dealer's invoice before dealer holdback is subtracted from the equation. Since TDA is not included in the invoice price, you'll have a pretty clear picture of true dealer cost ( Dealer's invoice minus hold back ).
Now that you know the truth, lighten up on us sales guys in negotiation! We're still everyday people just like you.

 

Doc fees, as lame as they are will not go away. Certainly some dealers go too far and charge a few hundred and even up to a thousand, but doc fees are here to stay. You don't know it, but us sales guys pay a doc fee ( known as pack ) to the dealer before we are commissioned on our gross, so I'm in the same boat but I pay it over 30 times per month. Our doc fee is $125, our pack is $150.
Back to the topic...Doc fees, as holdback once was, are the dealer's guarantee that they will have sales generated profit to cover facility money. It all goes back to too many dealers to close together, while this is great for the consumer in relation to service and sale price, it's bad for dealers and drives sales people to say things they probably shouldn't and do things that definately should not in order to make some money. We then see quality sales people ( the ones that you want to purchase from ) leave the industry since gross profit is down to a $300-$400 per car and commissions are cut to $40-$60/ car! Figure the average TOYOTA salesman sells 14 cars/ month you can see that sales isn't the premier gig these days so the good guys get going....newbies roll in and customer satisfaction takes a dive.

Independent Regions? You're referring to the private GST ( Gulf States Toyota ) distributor. No, Toyota can't get rid of that. GST started Toyota distribution in the US. There was some agreement betwen Toyota and some guy ( I can't remember all the details and names ) who built the empire that GST is today. All other regions in the country are TMS owned as far as I know.
Further, regional incentives and builds are frustrating to me, but we could use some condensing in the builds. You shoild see the mess that is the '09 Matrix. You can't for example, get an S- front wheel drive with VS in the chicago region, but jump one state west to Iowa and they're all over the place. If my customer wants a 1934 with VS, I've gotta drive 6 hours to get it or risk losing a deal to Pontiac Matrix. Well, I suppose that wont be the case much loneger but you get the idea.

I agree, the regional builds are a hassle. The incentives I can understand. I'm sure we sell more Tundras in the Chicago Region than say out in NY. NY could probably use stronger Tundra incentives than I need to get buyers to buy a Tundra.

D

 

Thanks for your helpfull post. I don't quite understand that last statement. How do we know how much the holdback is and therefore how do we know what invoice minus holdback comes to?

Roy

 

The hold back is 2% of the base MSRP. The base MSRP is shown on edmunds just before you click the "price with options" button.
To ge the dealer's invoice, you'd just have to ask the salesman. Asking that question on a 2010 Prius at this point is irrelevant since we're not discounting the car, but any salesman with integrity will gladly tell you the dealer's invoice.

My comment of edmunds giving you a clear indiction of the dealer's cost was based on the knowledge that edmunds invoice price doesn't include TDA. Since TDA and hold back are close in value ( generaly with-in $75, but in some cases like Sequoia, Lcruiser, Tundra the hokdback has a much higher value ) you'll have a pretty good idea of the dealer's actual cost. Cost meaning invoice minus hokd back.
I make this point because most consumers want to buy the car for dealer invoice. When they go to edmunds for their pricing research they negotiate twords our true dealer's cost and leave little to no profit for the dealer and salesman.

 

So is the point of having the information from edmunds so a buyer can get final price as close to invoice as possible? Are we suppose to try and get it for below edmunds invoice price?

 

We know the specific details of units/packages/colors for the first shipments to our region but these have not yet been split up amongst the dealers. The stores should have a summary of at least how many units each will be getting in the first tranche of shipments on Mon/Tues next week.

Shortly thereafter the specific units, sans VIN, will hit the individual stores inventory as inbound units in 'A'-Status.