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Help! Am I being scammed?

Discussion in 'Dealers & Pricing' started by budgethelp, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. budgethelp

    budgethelp New Member

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    Location:
    Seattle
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    I've recently visited two local dealerships in the Seattle area and agreed to purchase a 2009 Toyota Prius (package 2) for $22,746 ($23,496 less a $750 cash rebate from dealership #2.

    Note: This price includes the destination fee.

    I signed a lot of paperwork (including the registration), but haven't paid them anything yet. The financing rate they quoted was over 20% (crazy!), so told them I would come back on Tuesday (Apr 14) and pay for the car in cash (after borrowing from my mother. Thanks Mom!). They gave me a single key to the vehicle, and the car's manual, but again, I haven't given them a dime yet.

    Previously, I had received an "Internet quote" from dealership #1 for $24,469 ($1,000 more). After receiving the quote, I visited them in-person, but I had promised a sales rep at dealership #2 that I would give him a last shot. I stepped outside dealership #1's showroom, called the rep at dealership #2, and told him the price. He asked me by how much he needed to "beat" the other dealer's quote, and I said by $1,000. He went away, called me back in 3 minutes, and agreed to the $1,000 lower price. When I told the 1st dealer, well, he went bonkers and started telling me how that price was "impossibly low" and that the other dealership was lying and was going to "trick" me by adding a bunch of other fees, etc. He even called them on the phone (in private) - Sounds like price-fixing to me personally - but he let me walk out the door.

    The second dealership honored the lower price without any tricks. (Well, he reversed the last two digits of the price, so it was actually $973 lower, but I'm sure that was an honest mistake.)

    The $22,746 price sounded reasonable. Do you agree?

    Anyway, what REALLY upset me was the warranty salesman at the second dealership. I agreed to pay $1,659 for the prepaid maintenance package. (4 yr, 55K mile, every 5K miles, with 3 major maintenances - 11 services).

    He then quoted me a price of (about) $2,200 for the extended warranty (7/100K), but said he'd knock it down to $1,700 since I was going to buy the maintenance package.

    When I got home, I visited Toyota's site and saw that the MSRP of the maintenance program (from Toyota) was $1,355 (The salesman had quoted me a "discounted" price of $1,659.) And I saw that the MSRP of the extended warranty was $1,850. The salesman had quoted around $2,200, but said he would discount it to $1,700.

    Question #1: How should I deal with this? Can I get a better (HONEST) deal on the service plan and extended warranty? I saw a site called the "WarrantyShack" referenced here somewhere. Is it reputable? Do they sell real "factory" packages? I didn't know that a 3rd party company could even do this. I thought you HAD to buy these things from the original dealer.

    Question #2: I signed a lot of paperwork, but haven't paid anything yet. Am I under any obligation to pay the dealership the amounts I originally consented to?

    Question #3: Is the price of the vehicle resonable? I assumed it probably was because the 1st dealer "blew up" and simply refused to match the price.

    I've never bought a new car before...I actually had to tell the warranty salesman, "I don't understand any of these details - Talk to me like I'm 6".

    Note: I don't know where to post this, so I cross-posted to a couple of forums.
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I suggest that you carefully read the contract that you signed to see whether it contains a "cooling off" period where a buyer can rescind the contract without penalty.

    I further suggest that you not purchase an extended warranty or prepaid maintenance at this time. You can purchase the correct Toyota extended warranty up to 3 years/36K miles from initial sale, for <$1,000 (search PriusChat for details.)

    Why pay $1,300 or more for four years worth of oil and filter changes, and inspections? That is a big ripoff.
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I did some shopping in Seattle two months ago, while trying to decide between Insight / 2009 Prius #2 / 2010 Prius. Your vehicle price is similar to what I was offered through a no-negotiation program, for a car with a few hundred dollars of options installed. (I elected to wait for the 2010s.)

    My very first car was also financed through the Bank of Mom, and that is probably your best choice too. 20% is simply unacceptable, my credit union is offering 4.99 to 5.99% this month.

    I don't do extended warranties. After 30 years, 5 cars (Ford, Honda, Subaru), and over 700,000 miles (including the spouse), not one of the dealer-offered programs would have come close to being worthwhile. If you must have one, try the program on this site instead.

    The hard sales pressure to use their financing and service plan and warranty plan is normal. They make a lot of extra money on those "packs". Just so No!.
     
  4. budgethelp

    budgethelp New Member

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    2009 Prius
    Thanks for replying Patrick & Fuzzy!

    Do you really think that the maintenance program is a bad idea? This type of vehicle sounds so complicated - I figured that it would be wise to get the 11 services from a factory-authorized dealer.

    Why do you think this is a bad idea?

    And if I DO decide to purchase a pre-paid maintenance plan, is there a way to do so without going through the dealership where I purchased the vehicle?

    Thanks again!
    Steve
     
  5. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Steve, I'm sorry you didn't ask for advice before signing the contract. www.carbuyingtips.com is helpful. The car comes with 2 fobs--GET BOTH. Prepaid maintenance is a waste of money because if you read the manual the only maintenance is oil & filter changes. I bought filters in bulk from a Toyota dealer on line and saved quite a bit. Any Toyota dealer can sell the extended warranty & prepaid maintenance. "WarrantyShack" is a Toyota dealer. IMO extended warranties are also generally a waste of money. If the extended waranty is a good deal for the buyer then it wouldn't be offered for sale. If you expect a repair that makes the extended warranty a good value then you shouldn't be buying that POS.

    On the surface it sounds like the dealer let you drive away with a loaner so you may be able to void the existing contract. If you had bought the car you would have received the 2nd key. Don't put too many miles on the car and good luck voiding the original contract.
     
  6. budgethelp

    budgethelp New Member

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    Thanks Jim.

    I don't believe that I signed anything contractual - no promises to buy anything - just an agreement as to the price of the vehicle. Certainly I have not purchased the car yet. I rejected the financing terms and told them that I would be back on Tuesday to buy the car in cold-hard cash. The salesman said he gave me the key as a gesture, so that I knew they were holding that specific vehicle for me. I can't drive it.

    I was clear with him that I wanted to test-drive it again on Tuesday before I buy the car. It ran fine on Saturday, but who knows?

    I don't believe that I'm bound by anything contractual at this point in time.

    So...Reject both the pre-paid maintenance agreement and the warranty?

    I don't know a thing about cars, so I think I'll still try to purchase a maintenance agreement from the "WarrantyShack", as mentioned on this site. I suppose I'll have to speak with them first, to determine where this service agreement would be considered valid.

    Thanks so much for the advice.

    Steve
     
  7. Silver bullit

    Silver bullit Right Lane Cruiser

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    Hi- I bought a 2009 Prius (package 2) in Feb. for $22,790. They talked me into the prepaid maintenance and long term warranty for over $3,000. I talked to Troy at Warranty Shack and he told me I could call Toyota Financial and have them cancelled. I called Toyota Financial and they said to fax them a letter with the info they needed. I received two checks from them for the entire amount I paid. Also 20 per cent finance is outrageous. You have 3 yrs or 36,000 miles to get the long term warranty. The maintenance and warranty are both available on this site for a more reasonable price...Mike P.S. don't wait too long- there is a time limit to cancel these items
     
  8. budgethelp

    budgethelp New Member

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    Thanks Silver...You, and the rest of this board, have saved me a lot of money and grief!

    Thanks so very much!

    Steve
     
  9. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Active Member

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    Just to be clear about one thing: Troy at "Warranty Shack" actually works for a Toyota dealer over here in western MA (Toyota of Greenfield). So, you're getting the real Toyota warranty from a guy that's great to deal with.
     
  10. budgethelp

    budgethelp New Member

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    Cool - I requested a quote from him about both the pre-paid maintenance program and the extended warranty. Thanks!
     
  11. jlfinfrock

    jlfinfrock New Member

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    Not sure if you've already driven the car off of the lot yet, or if you've paid them yet, but if you haven't actually taken delivery of the car yet, you have every right to back out of the deal, regardless of what you have signed. 20% is outrageous, especially since they are offering 0% for 36 months and 3.9% for 60 months in my region. Not sure if you just have really bad credit or if they are ripping you off, but there's no way that you should get 20% if you have good credit. I used to work in the finance department of a Toyota dealership and they were big on inflating the prices of warranties and maintenance agreements in order to make the customer think that they were getting discount when they lowered it by a $100 but still paying over the Toyota listed price.

    You definitely should ask to see the bank approval to verify that the rate that they offered you is the rate that you were approved at. Many times, dealers will get an approval and then boost the rate to make more money. In Michigan law, dealers can't raise it more than 3% above the bank's approval rate, but not every state has laws to limit how much they can raise it by. I've seen reports on 60 minutes about TN dealers that raise rates by 12%. The dealer gets to keep all of the excess money because the bank only charges the dealer for what they approved you at.

    Also, even at the listed price, every dealer makes a profit off of the warranties and extended maintenance agreements, even the GAP insurance and life insurance has a profit built in. If they are not offering you a price under the Toyota listed price, then they are just banking off of you inexperience.

    It's very sad, but my dealership sent me to a finance training course one time for Toyota dealers and they taught us to stereotype people based on their appearance, their current vehicle, and their credit. We would always give the worst deals to minorities who were driving American cars and who didn't have at least a 700 credit score. They would get completely ripped off. That is a big reason why I left, I couldn't bring myself to do that and they kept urging me to do it. You definitely have to shop around A LOT in order to make sure that you're getting the best deal possible on a new car. Some dealers are just completely evil.