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Prius vs. Insight (leaning to Prius... have lots of questions)

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by r3sk3r, Mar 22, 2009.

  1. r3sk3r

    r3sk3r New Member

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    first time post here... a little about my situation: I just sold my 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid w/ California single occupant HOV stickers having moved to Austin, TX. I've been intrigued enough by the prospects for both the new Insight and Prius to rent until I've had a chance to take a look at both. I've never had a bad experience with a Honda, but am not exactly a brand loyalist. The 2009 and prior Prius styling and seating arrangement (for a broad shouldered 6'3" male) didn't do it for me. I also value a solid (even stiff) handling dynamic and felt the Honda had an advantage there. The Insight also seems like it might be a compromise for me in a number of ways, but the value pricing and near-term delivery date keep me interested in it. Nevertheless, at the moment I'm leaning towards the new Prius. I've a number of questions though. I gather there's an embargo of sorts until the 25th, but ahead of that I wonder if anyone here can comment on the following:

    - Does the solar moon roof option reduce interior headroom? How much weight does this option add?

    - I've read about the improvements to seat adjustability, but how abou the depth of the seat bottom? Has this been improved over the 2009 and prior models?

    - The factory option 17" wheels seem to impact fuel economy. Is this principally due to greater unsprung weight or more contact patch? Could one go w/ a lightweight aftermarket 17" wheel to retain the same economy as the 15"?

    - How much body roll is there in turns? Does the design lend itself to adding stiffer springs or anti-sway bar? I know this isn't a rally car, but I do prefer the slot car feel to the rolling couch thing.

    - What is the specific technical limitation that prevents one from having both the moonroof and the LED head lamps? Is it power draw? Weight? Could one order a model w/ the moonroof and then retrofit the headlamps?

    - How does the premium audio system sound? How about low-end frequency response? Do Toyota models generally provide pre-amp outputs on the back of factory head units?

    - Are the LEDs integrated with the exterior lens into the taillamp assembly? It's definitely highly subjective (and petty), but I dislike the white/silver appearance and would like to be able to change the color.

    - The blue translucent plastic on the shift lever... does it appear that one could easily pop that off to replace it w/ something more to their individual taste?

    - Road noise... for those that might have had an opportunity to drive the new model and have some experience w/ the HCHII, how does it compare?

    - An outside temperature gauge: does the new Prius have one?

    - Has there been any official communication around the viability of a retrofit to a newer battery technology down the road? If, say 8-10 years down the road, the original factory battery fails could one replace it w/ a Lithium Ion battery?

    - Are the marketing badges on the side and rear of the car affixed w/ adhesive or are they drilled in somehow? In other words could they be easily removed?

    - Does the Bluetooth Audio support extend beyond A2DP to also include AVCP (for remote control)?

    - Does the factory nav system support automatically inverting the color scheme based on ambient light?

    - Does the front seat fold down in any way so that one could transport something really long? For that matter do the rear seats fold down flat?

    - Are there built in hardpoints for a roof mounted bike rack (the toyota.com teaser site photos seem to suggest no)? Also, is there sufficient room in the interior vehicle for one to transport a bike w/ the rear seats folded down?

    Thanks!
     
  2. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    I'll take a stab at these:

    No decrease in headroom, the moonroof slides up and over the top vs. down and in (where headroom would be a factor). I'm not sure about weight difference. See the Picasa album in my sig for pics of the moonroof. I've also got a vid of it in operation on YouTube (same user name)

    I suspect more of the contact patch than anything else. The wheels would carry a higher unsprung weight as well. The 15" rims use less metal w/ a wheel cover to compensate for aerodynamics. Take a peek at my picasa album in my sig link for what each wheel looks like for your own comparison.

    Can't answer this one until after 3/25.

    There's no technical limitation alone here except for additional wiring/plumbing for LED headlights, which include headlight washers, leveling sensor on the rear suspension, and associated ECU and wiring harnesses. I imagine the weight of LED lights itself wouldn't be a factor w/ solar, but since they're bundled w/ the 17" rims, that combined could be a factor. Toyota's position was weight vs. MPG.

    I made noise about this, and would consider a retrofit w/ the understanding that I don't get washers or auto-leveling (w/o significant mods)

    For premium systems, Toyota's head units output a fixed output, and volume control/equilization is handled in the Amp (connected to AVC-LAN for mute or volume control operations). Low end sounded somewhat improved in the 2010, but some of us feel it could benefit from a decent sealed sub to round out the bottom. W/o an SPL meter, it's hard to quantify the differences between the two, other than to say the 2010 is improved. They ditched the useless center speaker as well.

    For reference, the premium system on the Gen 2 was 7 channels into 9 speakers. I imagine Gen 3 will be 6 channels into 8 speakers. I call them channels as in outputs as fronts are actively crossed over at the amp and use dedicated lines for woofers and tweeters. The rears use a passive crossover near the woofer and split the frequencies @ the door. The 7th in Gen2 was for the center channel. Input, of course, is only 2 channel stereo.

    Most going aftermarket end up tapping speaker level outputs from the amp into their own amps, however there's a fair amount of processing going on that may make any further post-processing moot or left w/ less than desirable results.

    Yes they are, as they are in the current generation. With the 3rd gen, they double as tail lamps at reduced intensity vs. a separate bulb in the 2nd gen.

    I imagine you could, but more likely, you'd want to unscrew it (if possible) and replace the entire knob.

    Can't comment on that until after 3/25.

    Yes, displayed in the climate control display.

    From "the chief" engineer, presently it won't be possible to retrofit NiMH to Li Ion. That doesn't mean someone else won't try it.

    Adhesive only - some fishing line and heat would be all it takes to remove.

    Yes. I've got a video on YouTube demonstrating this. There is no song title display on the MFD though as tested from a Blackberry Curve 8900.

    Not based on ambient light, but rather from the tail lamp signal. In other words, flip the interior dimmer all the way up, and you'll get day brightness full time.

    Yes and yes. I've carried 10' PVC and an 8' ladder this way.

    No hard points, but yes, sufficient room. A popular aftermarket mod is a receiver hitch which bolts to the shipping tie-down holes which can accept a hitch mounted bike rack.

    Hope this helps,
    -Rick
     
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Hello and welcome to PriusChat!


    Not much. The reason is that the glass slides up and over the roof instead of into the roof so rear headroom isn't compromised. I'm unsure of the weight.

    Didn't check this. However, I noticed that the leather-trimmed seats and the fabric-trimmed seats felt different. I felt more comfortable in the leather ones. In addition, the power lumbar support on the leather-trimmed models is a great addition.

    Could be both. Another minor factor could be the larger gaps between spokes.

    25th :p

    Probably weight but due to EPA regulations. In other words, there might be a weight range that the EPA allows their published MPG figures to be valid. Go outside that range and you'll need a 2nd vehicle with that weight to be tested.

    Decent. Not the greatest but an improvement over the 04/05. (The 06-09 models have an improved sound too but I wouldn't know since I don't have those model years). The bass isn't as heavy as the 04/05 models so you can actually crank up the bass to the max and not overburden the speakers and get muddy sound. I believe Doc Willie wrote an article on the sound system. It's in the forum somewhere. I'll see if I can find it if you're having problems locating that article.

    yes

    Most likely. Shifters are usually screwed on.

    25th :)

    Yes. It's located in the small MID beside the speedo, next to the clock.

    Can't be done according to the Chief Engineer. Like htmlspinnr said, that doesn't mean someone won't try it.

    TOYOTA logos are drilled. I believe the HYBRID emblems are drilled but the PRIUS and HSD emblems are glued.

    See htmlspinnr's response.

    Not in the US because US-Spec cars don't have automatic headlights. They will automatically invert if you turn on the headlights.

    The front seats fully reclines. It doesn't fold forward so yes you can put longer items but you won't have a seatback to support it.

    The rear seat folds nearly flat, yes.

    Nope but again, that didn't stop people from attaching kayaks to the roof of the current Prius.

    Yes. In the current Prius, I can find a 26" mountain bike.

    [​IMG]
    From john1701a's site
     
  4. r3sk3r

    r3sk3r New Member

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    HTMLSpinnr & Tideland Prius, thanks for the great responses! I'm surprised to hear that the US spec vehicle doesn't have automatic headlamps. Another quick question if you don't mind... I see that there are hacks available to allow nav input destination while on the move for the '09 and prior models. Should one expect that to continue to work in the 2010 model?

    Thanks again!
     
  5. PriusSport

    PriusSport senior member

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    I think you have to get in both cars and drive them. See how they fit, so to speak. Japanese compact cars tend to suit smaller drivers better. The Camry hybrid might be more suitable for a taller driver, but it isn't a hatchback.

    The Prius is probably a more advanced car technically than the Insight--it's had more development time. But price difference could be a significant factor. Maybe you can get a better buy on an '09. The '10 is a new model which could have some kinks, though I don't think it's that different. The lithium ion battery will be the next step up for the Prius and other hybrids.
     
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Not as far as I know and you'll need a hybrid 5.1 and 7.1 disc (which may or may not work and use at your own risk).
     
  7. Per

    Per New Member

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    Just a comment on road noise: While I, like most here, have not had an opportunity to drive a 2010 Prius, the current Prius definitely has less road noise than our HCHII, so I seriously doubt the new Prius is going to have more road noise than the currnet version. IAW, I'm willing to bet the Prius will be quieter than the Insight. Honda has a problem making quiet cars--even Acuras. Toyota does much better.
    I also predict the front seats will not have adquate thigh support for taller drivers, like most Japanese cars. I had to modify our '96 Maxima and our 2008 HCH, and if we had bought a Prius, I would have had to do that to it as well.
     
  8. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    Some other threads have outlined that some features in NAV (i.e. Previous Destinations) will be available while moving. This new system is a Gen6 system, so the hack would have to be re-engineered. Also, because the voice system recognizes street names (spelled out), that should be a more viable option.

    The "I agree" prompt does disappear after 5 seconds (another one of my YouTube clips)

    http://www.youtube.com/htmlspinnr