Snow driving my new Prius

The point is how to improve your traction in snow with your Prius, and that is done by installing four good winter tires.

If you insist on using all-season tires in snow, please stop complaining.

 

Also, nerfer has a 2006, which year and subsequent model years we suspect has a better traction control than the 2004 & 2005.

nyprius, btw, the new 2010 seat is sweet. Besides the height adjustment, the seat is much more comfortable, has optional adjustable lumbar support, and most importantly, the rearward travel has to be 3 or 4 inches further back than the Gen II's. To the extent there's an industry standard for rearward travel, I always thought the Gen II Prius was 3 to 4 inches short. I'm only 5' 6", and I can drive comfortably in my Gen II Prius with the seat pushed all the way back. Never could do that with any other car, including subcompacts like the old Volkswagen Beetle.

Also, the 2010 has a telescoping steering wheel. I always thought that to the extent that there's an industry standard, the Gen II Prius' steering wheel was a half inch or an inch short.

 

Stefx,

I have to disagree. The car should NEVER cut all power to the drive wheels. That is too dangerous a situation. I'd rather have no traction control than a car that does that.

 

They fixed it already. 2006 and higher models have a better less aggressive TC. I can't wait to find out the improvements they did with 2010 model.

 

i have an 05 and i'm getting rid of the car b/c of the TC in snow. one time i got stuck with my car halfway in the middle of the road... had to get out and PUSH. terrible.

 

I had to do this with my Jeep C-J5, and it didn't have traction control. Cars do get stuck, even with four wheel drive and snow tires.

I agree with all the comments that there is much room for improvement with the Prius traction control. The point I want to make is that improving traction control will not solve all of your winter driving problems. Traction control is only one small part of the equation. That said, I will be very happy if the 2010 features real traction control, and not just drive system protection.

Tom

 

I don't totally disagree, the TC can cause the car not to move in slippery conditions but:
"Our Prius is 2009 and still new tires" - um, still new OEM tires? Get real snow tires. They will help A LOT. You'll find a lot of posters dumping on the OEMs in snow (or sand/gravel), including me

By the way, your profile says 2008 Prius, might want to update that

 

AWD here we come!!

 

What kind of tires? Broken record around here I see but the tires really do make a lot of difference.

I have to assume snow 'here' is not necessarily the same a snow 'there'. I can echo nyprius' "slide down hill" once the OEM tries stopped rolling foward up a hill that had been plowed. That is when I replaced the Integritys with TripleTreds (3 winters). Could be the makeup of the snow/sand/salt/'whatever else' makes the road more slippery in VT than in areas where people say they have no problem with Integritys on snow covered hills.

I'm sure in some cases 'burning up the hill' works (can't be done in a Prius due to the TC) only because you get down to packed snow or road base. Even without TC, if the hill is long enough, the car will eventually slow to a stop as it is losing speed when you aren't 'catching'. Seen it myself in 4 non Prii, Edson Hill Road in Stowe. Years back, they got the speed limit increased to 35 MPH because that was what you needed at the bottom of the hill to manage to crest before totally dying.

 

Winter tires are for wintery conditions. Simple as a piece of cake.

 

As the owner of both an FJ Cruiser and a Prius, I have to agree that Toyota should have the "traction" control in the Prius work the same as in my FJ.

I've covered this before, but there is still a lot of confusion on how the "traction" control works in a Prius, and especially how it works in my FJ

Prius: First of all, the brakes are *not* involved in the TC behavior. Torque is reduced to manage wheelspin. Period

If you have an earlier GenII Prius, like mine, and are unfortunate enough to have one of them with the overly aggressive TC, you're done on snow/ice without real winter tires. I define "real" winter tires as modern STUDDED winter tires.

I tried Dunlop Graspic DS-2 and Yokohama Ice Guard 10 studless snow tires on my Prius. These tires work great on snow, slush, and some ice. I still had trouble on glare ice.

I finally solved my winter traction problems by getting a set of Goodyear Nordic studded tires from Canadian Tire. This is the same as the Goodyear Ultra Grip 500 sold in Europe

Goodyear Eur-Winter Tire-UltraGrip 500

If you click on "Profile" a Flash movie loads that explains the tire construction and benefits. This is a very noisy tire on dry pavement. On ice, you'll be quite happy with the traction. Honestly, compared to my FJ, my Prius has BETTER glare ice traction.

FJ Cruiser: the FJ can use a variety of traction aids. In 2WD the traction control works on the rear wheels. The brake is applied to a spinning wheel, but if you apply to much gas then the engine power is also reduced.

What that means, even with bald tires, if one side of the FJ is on glare ice, and the other side on dry pavement, the FJ will move with little drama. Or, if you're on a grade with one side glare ice and the other side bare, the FJ will easily move up it

Shift into 4H, the trac is detuned but now works on all four wheels. Say the example of one side on glare ice and the other side on bare pavement, the brakes are applied to the front and rear wheels on ice, and the FJ moves

Shift into 4L, and you have a choice of the mechanical rear differential lock, or what they call "A-Trac" or Active Traction Control. If you select A-Trac, the brakes are used on spinning wheels.

Say you try to slowly cross a steep ditch. One or even two wheels can be in the air at the same time. The brake is applied to the spinning wheel, forcing the wheel on the ground to work.

It wouldn't take much engineering or programming for Toyota to have the Prius traction control work the same as on the FJ. For example, say the light turns green, and the right front wheel sitting on glare ice starts to spin.

Apply the brake to the spinning right front wheel, reduce engine torque a bit, and have the left front wheel try to move. That would have solved 90% of my TC complaints, right there

I will reiterate that I solved 90% of my TC complaints just by running aggressive studded tires. I'm so impressed with them, I've preordered factory studded Nokian winter tires for my FJ. The Toyo Open Country G-02 winter tires on my FJ don't even come close to my Prius studded tires, on glare ice

 

My answer to anyone who has trouble with Prius traction control in snow: -
What the hell are you doing living there? Move where it doesn't snow!
People were not designed to live in snow, get out now while you still can.
Actually, I give the same advice to people who have no trouble with Prius traction control.

I would really like a Torsen Differential in my Prius, it would also help in snow and on ice.
Is there room in the front bumper of a Prius for sand boxes?

 

Oh, I do not know. Tried desert living in Utah, Nevada, and Arizona, and decided that wasn't so great either. I actually like having four real seasons

Sand boxes, reminds me of the garden tractor at my hobby farm. You can equip it with tire chains, weight boxes, and can even fill the rear tires with chloride for extra weight. Since I have a real tractor for that sort of work, the garden tractor stays parked inside all winter

I like mechanical locking differentials, especially in trucks. When a truck is empty, it is absolutely helpless in snow/ice as one wheel will just spin

The half ton at my hobby farm, which does double duty as my plow truck in winter, was pretty helpless even with four wheel drive. What would typically happen, all the weight from the plow and engine would bog down the front end, especially if I happened to drive off the driveway into the ditch, and the rear tire would just spin in air

I put a PowerTrax LockRite in the rear axle, and am seriously considering doing the same to the front axle. This is a very simple install, and - so far - very reliable

POWERTRAX® LOCK-RIGHT LOCKER BY RICHMOND

What I like about it: both rear wheels are always engaged, unless I try to turn. Many times, I can now plow in 2H, and usually only need 4H to push heavily drifted snow

What I dislike: because both rear wheels are engaged, a tight turn at low speed makes the characteristic "click-click-click" although it's quieter than a Detroit Locker axle

What is fun: in 2H, turn the steering wheel all the way left or right, and floor it: crazy, fun donuts as both rear wheels spin

This probably wouldn't work very well in a front wheel drive car, you'd need a Torsen or similar differential

 

DiscountTire.com claims that all-season tyres harden and lose traction below 45 degrees Fahrenheit. That's 7 Celsius - currently many parts of the USA are below this point. Anywhere in the northeast and midwest, you should be running winter tyres with their softer compound.

Generally we don't bother here in southern England - the lowest I've seen on the car's thermometer is -4 degrees Celsius (24.8F) a few weeks back, and even then we weren't getting much snow, and what there was wasn't settling. We do salt the roads so that it won't freeze on the road surface, but pavements (sidewalks) can be slippery.

Traction control kicks in because the wheels spin. I do find that on my 2008 car, it is a bit aggressive, cutting power in half as soon as any slip occurs, which leaves you feeling stranded if you've just pulled out of a junction. A limited degree of wheelslip would be better. (My previous car had no TC, and yes, sometimes the wheels would slip, but not a lot.)

 

This is the diff you need in snow.
http://www.billzilla.org/67torsen.jpg

 

Ah, but the air is so nice, fresh and crisp. Nice and cool most summers. A few sweltering days, but what the hey.

 

A good diff, but probably not a DIY install. The LockRite in my Ford, from the time I peeled off the diff cover, to putting it back on, was one hour. However, the LockRite is pretty archaic.

There is also the issue of price. THe LockRite to fit my Ford diff, cost $380. The install is pretty easy with c-clip diffs

 

Not really. I had exactly the same thing happen to me two nights ago. Started up a steep drive, car stopped, slid backwards into a snow bank. I have a 2007 Prius, with Michelin Hydroedge ('all weather') tires. Whether i would have made it with real snow tires I do not know.

Usually I do not drive the Prius when I know I am going to encounter these conditions. When I am on my more level commute, I feel much mor confident in the Prius, as is, than my other cars because of VSC. It is difficult to get this car to skid.

 

I live in upstate New York. I have a 2006 Prius top package. For winters of 2006, 2007 and Jan.-Nov. 2008 I had the stock Integrities. They were fine with all of our snowfall in '06 and '07. I just had to learn how to drive in snow with a somewhat aggressive traction control (of which we are all aware). In '08 I noticed that the Integrities were not enabling me to grip when there was the slightest bit of 'greasy' snow or ice on the roads.

Fall, '08 I purchased four Nokian Hakkapeliitta R's over the internet--TiresByWeb.com . My Toyota dealer mounted/balanced them for $15.00 each.

So far this season, we've had over eight feet of snow (not all at once of course). The car handles wonderfully. The Traction Control light almost never comes on at all. To exit my driveway one proceeds up a hill and curves to the right. Same thing for exiting my subdivision. I have complete control...every bit as good as my previous car--a Pontiac Bonneville which also had really good traction control and a lot more weight.

I know the power-removal that the Prius traction control exhibits is scary and frustrating, but the key for me was dedicated, high quality snow tires and driving quite a bit more conservatively than I ever did before. I feel safe and still get where I need to go without undue delay. In our frequent and white-out snow storms, I often pass SUVs and light trucks that have either spun out or cannot seem to keep traction. I have even successfully 'plowed' my way home through 6" deep snow that had fallen before the plows could clear it. Steady does it, with the properly designed tires! I now no longer feel I will need to purchase a second vehicle--a snow car! I hope this helps some who worry about the aggressive traction control and their 'loss of control'.

Incidentally, I anticipated a 3-5 mpg hit from the Hakkapeliitta R's but never saw it. My winter mpg average has dropped from a summer average of 51/52 down to 49.7 mpg thusfar. The R's are rated "Ultra Low Rolling Resistance"----I believe it!

 

We went downstate this weekend, and started the trip with glazed roads dusted with light snow. They didn't look slick, but it was like a skating rink. I noticed the Prius felt a little squirrelly, like it does in a strong cross wind. It was the road surface, not the wind. With VSC it felt like I was driving a hovercraft. I never had any trouble keeping control, but the car felt like it was floating. I slowed down, and shortly after that we saw the first car off of the road. It was an SUV that had been going in our direction. Now it was going the other direction on the other side of the road. The skid marks clearly showed where they had crossed the passing lane and two lanes of opposing traffic, parallel parking inside of the snow bank on the other side. The people were still in the SUV, looking shocked. Fortunately all of the oncoming traffic had missed them.

Shortly after that there was a Jeep Cherokee on our side of the road, being loaded onto a flatbed truck. You could see the big hole in the snow bank where he had lost control and smacked into the bank at speed. It must of been a good hit if he couldn't drive away from it.

Our Prius did great as usual. A little common sense and an understanding of how it works is all it takes.

Tom