2010 - no plug-in = big disappointment

A plug-in Prius will be very welcome, but it will have to meet the expectations of the mass market. Meaning considerable electric range (I'm thinking 40 miles+), 150K miles w/ no problems and no battery replacement, and 99.99% troublefree from the plug-in system.

I'd rather Toyota take their time and get it right the first time. And I'd rather buy a plug-in design after it's had 10MM miles of real-world testing (e.g. the 500 plug-ins Prii that will start fleet testing soon).

AFAIK, the only other plug-in that is on the horizon in the next couple years is the Volt. I don't think its started serious long-term testing yet.

 

Are we sure there have not been any signifigant changes to the 2010 "3rd gen" model? If they are gearing this up for PHEV use, I would expect that the electric motor to be able to drive the vehicle at highway speeds, rather than top out at 34mph and require the ICE to start...

I wonder if there maybe some surprises in the design of the electric motor/ICE and if possibly the electric motor could now propel the car up to say 50 or 55mph, which would certainly be a requirment if they where to offer this model as a PHEV in the future...

mitch

 

I'm sure there are very significant changes to the 2010 Prius.

Engine power increases 28%, the motor power increases 20%, the system power increases 22% and surprisingly the fuel economy increases 9%.
It is very rare to see both performance and fuel economy improvement at the same time. That's the innovation!

Please note that Prius is a gas-electric vehicle and all energy come from gasoline. Therefore, driving by electric power on highway is not a good idea and it is very inefficient way.

Ken@Japan

 

We already know that the 2G Prius can be made to go electric up to 50-60mph with only software changes. I would expect the same or higher to be true on the 3G, regardless of its current configuration. Unfortunately no one outside Toyota knows how to make this change on the 2G, but we're getting close. Its only a matter of time until someone cracks it.

Rob

 

ken1784,

Future years of the Prius may well be PHEV, and they made changes to the 3rd gene 2010 Prius to handle this. I am betting MG1 can now run the vehicle up to highway speeds with out the ICE engaging, that's what I was asking about.

I full well know how the Prius works, I have owned a 2002, and currently own a 2004 2nd gen MY.

If they did do this, in anticipation of the PHEV capabilities, then certainly 3rd party mfrs such as HyMotion will be able to offer a PHEV conversion kit, that't what I am wondering about. If the top speed of the electric motor is stil only 34mph, that is prety much a deal killer for offering PHEV in this platform, as it has zero advantage over the Gen II MY.

Mitch

 

Wrong. The power Combiner / along with MG1 over-revving is the issue.
MG1 will never allow the Gen 2 prius to run faster than 34mph in electric mode, you need to do some more forum reading, this was discussed many years ago...

Mitch

 

I would agree with you for the most part, but I think there will be a meeting in the middle. Progress will be made on the part of PHEV technology toward longer range at a reasonable cost, but also people's expectations will become more reasonable. Many feel as you do, that unless a PHEV has 40+ miles of range and runs full electric the entire time its not worth it. The problem is, we know that that kind of technology currently costs ~$20k+, resulting in the $40k+ Volt design. Meanwhile, a 10 mile PHEV that gets 50mpg would raise the average 33 mile per day / 22 mpg driver to 72mpg cutting their annual fuel consumption from 547 gallons to 167. A 20 mile PHEV would give the average driver 127mpg, and cut their fuel consumption to 95 gallons. While 0 gallons is still the goal, that would be a pretty good start, particularly if its at a price that will allow wide spread adoption.

Rob

 

Did anyone else notice there are now 5 planet gears in the PSD? Very strong!

 

Rare indeed. Almost unheard of. Yet the gen II Prius did it 4 years ago, and now the gen III does it, though for me the gen II was more of a step forward than is the gen III.

True. But if it were PHEV everything changes, as then it could use more-efficient grid power. But for that to happen, the electric motors and associated power train have to be able to sustain far more speed and acceleration than the gen II Prius does. I guess we don't yet know what the limits are for the 2010 model.

Did nobody at the PCD ask what the limit speeds would be for electric driving in the 2010???

Not quite right. The Prius will drive electric faster than 34 mph. It just requires that the ICE be turning. The ICE need not be putting out any power, and gasoline consumed is insignificant. Some folks like to call this "super-stealth," though I personally dislike the term.

 

guys, you will see "many" changes to Prius PHEV in 2012... while it might end up looking similar, with less space somewhere, there is no chance that they will use the same systems in it as in 2010 Prius... They will use same platform, exterior, interior but many hybrid components will be changed to properly support PHEV.

this is not custom battery drop in, this is official vehicle from major company, nothing is taken as granted.

 

Yes I am also disappointed. The thing is we know they can do it but I think they are holding it back. The technology (plug in) is there.
Obviously a business move by Toyota. The new Prius is still an upgrade. A minor upgrade.

 

While not having a PHEV is disappointing, significant changes will come more rapidly than many of us realize. Big Carbon (oil & coal) will continue to fight the transition to PHEVs, but consumers will immediately realize the air quality and cost benefits and respond accordingly.

 

Mitch,

I think you're missing my point.
A gas-electric vehicle and a PHEV are completely different animal.
Toyota and any car manufacturers don't offer vehicles for 3rd party manufacturers.
The 2010 Prius is offered for consumers as the best hybrid vehicle.

A PHEV is configured very differently from hybrid vehicle.
Are you familiar with Toyota's field testing PHEV based on the 2G Prius?
It uses the same 50kW MG2 with the same 10000rpm max MG1 and achieves 100km/h(62mph) EV speed.
TOYOTA: News Releases

The 2010 Prius already has improved 60kW MG2 and improved 13500rpm max MG1.
I believe the 2010 Prius based PHEV will be able to achieve the EV speed above 70mph.

Ken@Japan

 

If you have 10 mile EV range, and a 20 mile drive, it doesn't really matter much if you drive pure EV for the first ten miles and switch to gas or use the battery to provide half the power for all 20, so long as you can keep the engine warm enough for peak efficiency if it's only providing half the power. The new EGR system allows exactly that, giving a 3rd gen plugin a substantial advantage even if it can't sustain pure EV mode any better.

Toyota's G2 plug in demo had a 8-mile range. I would not expect them to target anything significantly higher than that; large, expensive packs like they Hymotion have a pay-off time of never. A much smaller, cheaper pack is far more likely to appeal to average consumers.

 

What about the speed limit if you've used the EV switch? (Presently 34 mph.)

 

I heard the same.

Tom

 

Thanks.