All American Hybrid (dot com)

Haha! LMAO at that video! I'm still not buying one!

You know, after seeing the movie Gran Torino (Clint Eastwood) last night, I'm much more inclined to buy a Ford Fusion hybrid for my next vehicle. No, I'm not easily persuaded just by a movie. I'd consider the movie to be a reminder of "the good old days" when people worked hard for what they had and were proud to be a part of this great country. A have a renewed respect for Michigan now. I can completely relate to the [non racist] aspect of that movie; my grandfather, father, and myself all had/have full sets of tools in our garages and when something breaks, we take fifteen minutes and fix it ourselves and take pride in what we have. My nextdoor neighbor will look at something broken for a whole week, then call someone to come out and charge him several hundred bucks to fix it. Yeah, that part doesn't have to do with cars, but if you've seen the movie, you understand my point. If you haven't seen the movie and you do go and see it, it will make you think twice about buying another Toyota. Of course, times do change, and I do NOT want to sound closed-minded about this. This is more of a "step back and think about what is going on here." On my way home, I saw (not kidding) THREE Dodge Challengers and DAMN were they beautiful !!!!

.For the record, and I think most of you already know this, I *HATE* SUVs.
.A construction worker and other types of workers NEED pickup trucks, and that makes perfect sense.

.my next vehicle will be either a Fusion, Prius, Insight, or other. Let's hope it's a Fusion.
.Any chances we could see another American car hybrid before the end of 2010?

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The Snack Fairy visits the office most days and now I know the Gas Fairy visited me. Thanks for the video link.

 

I am sorry you do sound closed minded. You apparently don't have a large family and must not need to take a daughter and 3 grand children to the store or to the movies? You lust after a Hemi powered Challenger but you *HATE* Suv's.

So my owning a mini van is trouble. I get much better mileage per person when I drive it with my family than I do driving my Prius to work by myself. That is why we own both. Couples and small cars are not practical for large families.

 

I said nothing about minivans that are full of children. I approve.

The reason I despise SUVs is a whole different subject. The only reason I added it is because I didn't want anyone to misinterpret my support for the American auto industry as support for SUVs. I support the American auto industry (and American minivans ) 100%. I disapprove of all [urban] SUVs, foreign and domestic because they are awkward and dangerous and do not belong on urban streets (I support offroading in the desert, as that is a way for many to enjoy life and freedom), and also SUVs are notoriously gas guzzlers. Yes, I know that the Dodge Challenger is a gas guzzler as well, but the reason I like the Challenger is not for it's horsepower (a lie), but because it's made in America and has ties to American history and identity. If they made a [real] hybrid Challenger or EV Challenger, I would seriously buy one tomorrow morning.

Today: "WASHINGTON (AP) -- A staggering 2.6 million jobs disappeared in 2008, the most since World War II, and the pain is only getting worse with 11 million Americans out of work and searching. Unemployment hit a 16-year high of 7.2 percent in December and could be headed for 10 percent or even higher by year's end." "Behind the statistics that we see flashing on the screens are real lives, real suffering, real fears"
Job losses hit 2.6 million as layoff pain deepens - Yahoo! Finance
I sure hope that Prius and minivan you are driving says "Assembled in America."
In most of the 2000s, we ignored noticing whether products say "made in America," but maybe in 2009 we should be thinking about that in an entirely different way.
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I also hate SUV's. This is not the answer to saving fuel, but I have to give Chevy credit. This thing gets better city mpg then a Mini Cooper convertible.

 

It seems like the Ford Fusion Hybrid will be a reasonable choice. The Escape Hybrid has received reasonable reliability ratings per ConsumerReports, so there's hope that the Fusion Hybrid also will exhibit similar performance. Ford is the most likely of the three American vehicle manufacturers to survive past the next five years.

10 years ago I was on a crusade to "buy American" cars so I owned a 1997 Ford Explorer XLT V8 AWD, a 2000 Ford Mustang GT convertible (which I still own) and a 2002 Ford Taurus SES sedan. Well, the Taurus required the transmission to be rebuilt twice under warranty and the windshield seal produced a wind noise that the dealer could not resolve. The Explorer was quite reliable but you know about them flipping over due to rear tire failures, so imagine what that did to resale value. The Mustang has been reliable so far due to low miles on the odometer, but I think that the plastic intake manifold and the design of the spark plug holes in the cylinder heads are weak points in the engine design. Anyway, that experience made me feel like I'd done my share to buy American brands.

If you think about it, hybrid vehicle production is the auto industry equivalent of the "arms race" between the US and USSR. That bankrupted the USSR since its economy was not productive enough to meet the demands of its military as well as its people who desired an improved standard of living.

A reliable hybrid vehicle implies a well-engineered design and extremely high reliability of the electronic and mechanical components making up the drivetrain. This may be beyond the capacity of many auto manufacturers to deliver consistently.

Look at the ConsumerReports list of vehicles to avoid due to poor reliability: several Audi, BMW, MBZ, VW, and Volvo models are listed. No surprise, many domestic brands also are included on the "avoid" list. If these manufacturers can't build low-tech vehicles reliably, how can they hope to build hybrids that operate at the same level as Toyota HSD?

 

I'm amazed how powerful the Detroit media blitz is. After checking www.fueleconomy.gov I was hard pressed to see the mpg advantage that the Tahoe has over the Mini. Detroit and GM in particular should focus on solving real world automotive challenges instead of lobbying and advertising their way to convenient solutions.

 

Patrick Wong, thank you very much for sharing your experiences and knowledge of Ford. I will definitely take that into consideration. At the same time, someone needs to step up to the plate and support Ford's hybrid efforts. If people didn't take a risk on the first Prius, and if people didn't take a risk on the first Escape, hybrids might not exist today. Knowing that in the past FORD=FixOrRepairDaily, I still want to support the Fusion Hybrid. If it sells well, it could revolutionize the US auto industry.

 

Don't believe the hype Rybold. My parents and in-laws have owned Ford vehicles exclusively for decades with minimal problems. My father is still driving a 1991 E150 van with more than 300K miles. Besides daily driving it tows and hauls. Still has the original engine and transmission. This really doesn't mean anything though, it is just a single case and is statistically insignificant just like Patrick's bad experience. However when we look at statistical data, we see that all manufacturers make good cars:

JD Power Initial Quality (First 3 months)



The best brand has .87 problems per car.
The average brand has 1.18 problems per car.
The worst brand has 1.67 problems per car.
The difference from best to worst is less than 1 problem. All modern cars are good, some are slightly better than others.



JD Power Dependability (3 years)



The best brand has 1.2 problems per vehicle
The average brand has 2.06 problems per vehicle
The worst brand has 3.44 problems per vehicle
Basically a difference of 2 problems from best to worse.

EDIT:
Honda is the best Japanese company with an average of 1.69 problems per vehicle. (Acura, Honda)
Ford is the best American company with an average of 1.73 problems per vehicle. (Lincoln, Ford, Mercury)
Toyota is the 2nd best Japanese company with an average of 1.74 problems per vehicle. (Lexus, Toyota, Scion)
Note: This is just an average of the companies brands. A better comparison would be to calculate a weighted average based on vehicles sold per brand. I'm not going to bother because I don't see tenths of a problem to be enough of a difference to take the time.

5 problems that appear in the top 10 for both initial quality and dependability:

• Excessive wind noise
• Noisy brakes
• Vehicle pulling to the left or right
• Issues with the instrument panel/dashboard
• Excessive window fogging

When these are all the customer can come up with to complain about you are doing pretty good.
__________________

 

Thats pretty harsh! You are talking about a eight year old car and pointing to things in the design that MIGHT go wrong!

People take Mustangs and put the engines under heavy stress (through modification and racing) and you don't hear of problems with the spark plug holes. The plastic intake is also not a problem but often replaced by a cold air kit, I did mine for $100 and it gets better MPG due to it.

 

The same modular V8 design is installed in Ford light trucks. See the following link that shows hundreds of complaints, mostly from Ford truck owners (but a few Mustang owners as well), about spark plugs popping out of the cylinder heads:
Feds Urged to Act on Ford Spark Plug Blow-Outs - Topix

From the engine's perspective, Mustang service is probably light duty compared to truck service, so I imagine that is the reason for a small number of problems reported by Mustang owners.

Although I recognize that Consumer Affairs is not considered to be an unbiased website, where you can find smoke there may be at least a small fire somewhere in the vicinity.

I replaced the original platinum spark plugs on my Mustang after I learned about this. The original plugs had a black-painted finish, and around four or five threads on the shell - not much to hold the plugs in. The threads were beginning to corrode.

The replacement Motorcraft plugs that I bought from a local Ford dealer had a nickel plate finish and more threads. It seems that Ford recognized the problem, although they are not helping owners who had problems post-warranty.

 

Thank you for posting the statistics! I thought I'd been hearing that most vehicles made these days (2008) were good quality, and it looks like it's true. (sure, there are exceptions) My Corolla has excessive wind noise (because I usually have the driver's window open at least an inch at all times) I can live with wind noise. Noisy brakes? Shouldn't be a problem with me because I toss the OEM brakes and put ceramics on (they last much longer and wear isn't influenced by temp relative to metallics), vehicle pulling? Hmmm. Maybe people need to not be so lazy and fix the alignment. Issues with the instrument panel - yeah, that could be a problem. My Corolla works perfect, all around. Excessive window fogging? Maybe the average Consumer Reports user needs to "get a room." Lol. I actually do have that complaint with my Corolla, ... when it rains, it's hell to keep the windows unfogged ... so I guess it's "almost perfect." That's the ONLY complaint I have about my Corolla Lucky for me, it doesn't rain much in California.

Jhinton, thanks again!

 

Sad.

Pathetic. 'Those whom the Gods would destroy they first make insane.'

They both fail on so many levels and so many ways. The web site is exclusive to Tahoe hybrids, so it stays isolated from the larger hybrid community ... great way to find new buyers. When in deep snow and all family sedans, compacts and sub-compact cars are having trouble, only the Prius gets attention. Meanwhile this site ignores the hybrid SUVs. His real competition are the Highlander, Lexus and possibly the Ford Escape but he focuses upon the Prius.

The commercial goes out of its way to paint fuel efficiency, the "gas fairy," as a short, balding, cross-dresser who counts 'models getting over 30 MPG' (without saying highway only) and hands out 'candy.' The Chevy logo brands this as the GM way. They seem to have all of the customers that they want or need.

Bob Wilson

 

I HATE SUVs as well. My primary concern (OK, besides the fact that they are normally driven by people who could use a 5 passenger car that gets much better mileage): the bumpers of cars are mandated at a certain height. Minivans are built to the same spec though I don't know that it is mandated.

ALL SUVs, large and small are higher off the ground (impairing vision of those behind) and consequently have bumpers that are higher than those in cars. There is NO reason this has to be (same with pickup trucks). We all drive on the same roads. If someone NEEDS more clearance for actual off road use, their vehicles should be fitted with lift systems or some sort of 'fold up' bumper'. The likely damage to vehicles and their occupants is a lot higher when the bumpers are not in line.

You want to bring down the cost of automotive and health insurance? Reduce the amount of the claims by making an accident less damaging.

 

The problem with the JD Power methodology is that it assumes all problems are of equal importance. It also lumps together all models into a brand average.

If you take this survey seriously, then you might be tempted to say that quality no longer is a differentiator when choosing between auto brands. The auto manufacturers with relatively poor quality want you to reach that conclusion.

I personally would be more concerned about a transmission problem than a failed CD player. I am also interested in understanding the likely quality of the specific auto model that I might consider buying, not just the average for the brand.

If you agree that some auto problems are more significant than others and want to see detail by model, I call your attention to the Consumer Reports ratings. The data is based upon subscriber input and is published in the April edition each year, as well as in the annual Buying Guide.

It turns out that Prius is rated very highly, with almost all trouble areas showing much better than the average vehicle (this is true for just about all Toyota models.) OTOH, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Lincoln Navigator, Kia Sedona, Land Rover/Range Rover, Saab, and most VW models are reported to have several trouble areas much worse than average.

 

I posted JD Power Ratings for brands. It is an overall rating. So the average Ford owner will have a total of 1.7 problems in the first 3 years of ownership. You are correct that those could be any type of problem including things that I wouldn't call a problem like the windshield fogging. It might be a design issue but nothing broke.

JD Powers also does individual ratings by model and rate that model on 12 categories. These categories are rated on scale of 1-5. For example one of these categories is Powertrain Mechanical Quality:

"Powertrain Quality - Mechanical: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems with the engine or transmission as well as problems that affect the driving experience (i.e., vehicle/brakes pull, abnormal noises or vibrations) only."

This is really no different than Consumer Reports. Consumer Reports used red and black circles but is still a 1-5 scale. Consumer Reports does not rate severity of problems. Whether you have a broken $5 sensor or a broken crankshaft it is still one engine problem to Consumer Reports.

Personally I'm not a fan of either JD Powers or Consumer Reports. All they do is tell you an average number of problems. They also both rely on surveys of vehicle owners. I'm very suspicious of this information as most people don't know anything about cars.

For automobile quality ratings I prefer Identifix used at MSN Autos. They actually collect data from the service technicians that fix the problem. From that they know the diagnosed problem and what it took to fix it. Identifix has 8 categories for reliability:Engine, Transmission & Driveline, Steering & Suspension, Brakes, HVAC, Starting & Charging, Accessories.

For example this is what they have to say about the engine in my 2003 VW Jetta Wagon:

"Occasional problems on this vehicle are failure of the Mass Air Flow Sensor and the Water pump. The cost to repair the Mass Air Flow Sensor is estimated at $329.00 for parts and $26.00 for labor for the 4-cylinder engines and $220.00 for parts and $26.00 for labor for the 6-cylinder engines. The cost to repair the Water Pump is estimated at $66.00 for parts and $169.00 for labor, 4-cylinder gasoline engines and $104.00 for parts and $247.00 for labor, diesel engines. All prices are estimates based on $65.00 per flat-rate hour and do not include diagnostic time or any applicable sales tax."

This is useful information.