Leaked document reveals Honda Insight mpg & CO2

It will help but isn't necessary. I look at it this way.

The EV-1 had a 77 Ah battery to go ~ 160 miles
The Prius has a 6.5 Ah battery to go ~ 2 miles.
So 1 EV is equal to about 12 hybrids for battery production.

So while you need to make 1 million hybrid batteries to justify that battery factory you only need to build 85,000 EV's to utilize the same factory.


You may be right about me. I've never been a big Toyota fan. They just have never made a car that I could get excited about. (The MR2 is the exception) I find the Prius to be a very bland car that happens to get exceptional mileage. (Which is the reason I bought it.) I'm not a tech guy, in fact I prefer mechanical systems to electronic systems. I much prefer to turn a knob then tap a touchscreen mainly because I can turn the knob by feel while driving. I prefer manuals to automatics or CVT's.

 

just bought gas today $1.899
that is 25 cents more than what i paid for it the first week of December

 

We will know all in a week!

I am going to buy a new car to replace my 2004 Mustang and it will be either a
Ford Fusion Hybrid expected $27000
Honda Insight $18000
or a 2010 Prius $25000

The Insight is the leader for me due to price and me driving less. But what you have here are three cars in three different classes. Small, medium and large. The Insight will be a low cost car with less features and the smallest. The Prius will be the tech leader and maybe the luxury leader. The Fusion will be American made and the biggest of them all with possibly the fastest electric mode.

For $18000 the Insight is going to deliver much better mpg then a $15000 smart or almost anything else but the Prius. At $2000 less then the Civic Hybrid and similar size and more mpg its going to be a sweet spot.

 

Given 100 HP for the new Insight, it better weigh far under 3,000 lbs. Like 2,600

 

Hi Ken,

Please go back just one page to post #24 on this thread.
You'll see we at Prius-PT.com have already discussed that and the explanation is there at post #24.

Basically the Prius takes longer to warm up and the ECE15 test cycle is too damn short for the Prius. Once the Prius gets warmed up, it beats the Insight easily on the combined NEDC test cycle.

 

What corollas have you guys been in? My prius' interior is way, way nicer (materials, refinement) than my friends cheap plastic crappy corolla interior. Her's is newer than mine too.

 

I'm talking about materials. The Prius has hard instrument panel. This is simply painted hard plastic. This is the least expensive type of instrument panel to make and it shows. (The paint started flaking off mine at only 40K miles) There is not a single soft surface in the cockpit. The only other US Toyota that uses a hard instrument panel is the Yaris.



From Visteon's Webpage Instrument Panel Manufacturing:

Injection Molding

• Paint or Soft Paint
• Thermoplastic pellets to form a part
• Grain/texture imbedded in the substrate and painted
• Hard surface
• Consistent grain and gloss
• Typically lowest cost process for panels

The Corolla has a soft instrument panel. This is a skin with graining, hard plastic retainer for support, with a foam layer between.



Positive Thermoforming

• A thermoformed roll sheet stock or sheet material is bonded to the substrate with an injected foam layer
• Uses PVC or TPO compact sheet
• Uses PVC or TPO trilaminate/bilaminate
• Grain/texture in covering
• Soft surface
• Lower gloss
• Greater design flexibility to injection molding
• Lower cost alternative to other foam in-place processes

Visteon Corporation: Instrument Panel Manufacturing

 

Absolutely not true since improved model 2006 came out, almost 4 years ago.

Just posting to make sure a visitor does not buy this post for true.

 

As regards the new Insight II in looking at the dimensions and most importantly the pricing it's clear that while it looks like a Prius it is in fact a hybrid version of the current Honda Fit.

For them to be able to offer it at an expected MSRP of $18500 which includes a $1500 hybrid option indicates that the base ICE vehicle without the hybrid option would be priced at ~$17000 MSRP which is exactly what the Fit lists for.

Look at the Honda Fit for content, materials and capability. With a different design that's what the next Insight will be. The Fit is at least a class lower than the HCH or Matrix or Prius.

It's a 'starter' Prius intended for the buyers that don't want to or can't swing for a vehicle above $20000. This is a huge market and I think it will be a great success. However I don't think that it will take much away from the typical Prius buying segment. The typical Prius buyers are expecting to pay $25000-$30000 for a vehicle. They don't generally consider $17000 vehicles at the same time.

However for the budget-conscious buyers who would like to get a hybrid but finds themselves priced out, the Insight II is perfect. I think that the Insight will be a raging success.

 

It is absolutely true for US models. I have no idea what Europe is getting but the US model has not changed since the 2004 introduction. In 2006 the US market got a textured paint instead of a flat paint on the some areas like the glovebox. This is absolutely NOT a soft instrument panel. I know because I went to an auto show in 2008 and laid my hands on the instrument panel. (BTW, those pictures are from the US Toyota website and are 2009 models.)

I would not be surprised if Europe gets a better interior. We already know that Toyota provides some features standard to Europeans that aren't even available as options to US buyers. A height adjustable driver seat is one of these features. You also pay more for a Prius than we do.

 

you are correct on both counts... and of course that will be improved in 2010 Prius - however, you need to check Honda interiors, which are harder these days than Toyota's, even in Europe.

And due to Insight selling at lower price, i doubt it will get better interior - quite likely, they will cheapen it out to lower the price, cheaper than 2010 Prius anyway.

Not only that, but levels of features, accessories, NVH, overall build quality for Prius will be one class higher than Insight...

 

You are mistaken. Much of the dash is a soft surface and the glove box has a soft surface as well. It's not mushy soft as on some other vehicles, but if you press your finger against it, it indeed is a compressible material with a texture. This is how my 2008 #2 is. I drove a 2009 #3(?) for a few days while the Tundra was in the shop and didn't notice the materials being different although it did have the gray interior while mine is bisque.

I suggest you go to a lot and try again.

 

It is paint over plastic not a foamed instrument panel. In 2006 Toyota changed from hard paint to soft paint for some areas.

For some information on soft paint: Thin-wall waterborne soft-feel paint - Patent Application 20080021153

In the interior business you have hard and soft instrument panels. Any plastic, or painted plastic is defined as a hard instrument panel. Any skin foamed over a retainer is a soft instrument panel. The Visteon website I linked clearly defines characteristics and features of the different types: Visteon Corporation: Instrument Panel Manufacturing

I will go check out the new 2010 Prius and 2010 Insight when they hit showrooms. There is no reason to check out a 2009, I know what it is: The 2G Prius has an injected molded plastic instrument panel that is painted. (US market)

 

My 2004 interior is a hard plastic I admit but it looks great in burgundy and I prefer it to the soft textured rubber look I saw in a 2007 and 2008. The textured rubber looks cheaper and collects dirt easier. My friend's corolla doesn't look like the one pictured in post 47. It's all monotone grey plastic like in my 95 Geo metro.

 

Does your friend's Corolla look like this:



This is the 2003 to 2008 Corolla. Apparently Toyota has redesigned the Corolla for 2009. The 2003-2008 is very bland but from the detail photographs it appears to be a soft instrument panel. Better materials but poor styling.

I also agree that the hard paint on my 2005 looks better than the soft textured paint on the newer Prius. That is until it starts flaking off and reveals the dark plastic behind it. Then it REALLY looks cheap.

 

You are really a stubborn man, you have to have the last word don't you? Everybody is telling you how things really are, but no, even without proof you have to continue pushing your ignorance ahead.

Here's one for you, a picture taken from the backside of my own Prius dash (part from the top of the driving wheel). Take a good look at the borders. See that 3mm or so dark yellow line around? It's foam, do you know what foam is? Do you see the center round whole? See how the foam expanded through it? How about that ehm?



The texture is made by a small film that is glued to the foam. In some places around you can see the excess film unglued and see it's not paint at all.

Next time try to consider at least for a bit that you might actually be wrong! <G>

 

Maybe I'm being dense here - what's the point of the instrument panel being "soft"? Why is that seen as desirable?

 

I would've probably bought it if it was available at the time. Definitely would have considered it. I bought a base model Prius at $22K , which is as high as I wanted to go. I think the interior of the Prius is just fine, I don't need supple leather dashboard surfaces just to get me to work. I wouldn't mind a stick shift, although I realize the CVT is more efficient for the hybrid system. Manual roll-up windows would be fine too.

 

Yes, that's more like it but a lighter/uglier grey. I think she has a 2006.

 

No it is not.

Says 20 to 25 microns... Sure 20 to 25 microns is going to feel really compressible.

Fact is that it is soft. Claim all you like, but you are wrong. And it's really funny, because you are obsessed with the instrument panel as your central thesis about the Prius yet your basis is a falsehood.

Go check out both the 2008 and 2009. Squeeze the edge of the glove box cover between your finger and thumb and tell me that is only 2x25 microns of compression. There is quite a bit of this same material in the cockpit that you claim doesn't have any.