Toyota to release 2 different Prius-es to US & Europe

Yes this is one important point many don't see. In driving both the Prius and the TCH in normal Interstate environments at 70-80 mph the TCH gets its 39-40 mpg effortlessly. My Prius OTOH struggles and loses FE at the higher speeds above 65 mph. I'd estimate that the drop off is 5% down to 45-46 mpg.

If we find that the new Prius with a 1.8L cruises effortlessly at 70-75 and still gets 53 mpg then the extra boost in power will be worthwhile. In the city the extra power doesn't matter one whit, ergo the Euro-version.

 

BUMP

I think that we will be pleased to find out that even with the larger more powerful engine that the FE ratings ( and actual results ) are 10-15% better than our current Gen 2's. This will be a slick trick on Toyota's part if so.

 

My understanding of the partial power inefficiency of combustion engines suggests just the opposite. Per Graham Davies

 

This thread has a bit of a "Groundhog Day" feel to it. 6 months ago over on TDIclub.com the rumors were flying and anticipation building. VW was about to release the new 2.0 CR TDI in the US. It was going to be larger, more powerful and get better fuel economy. Then the specs and EPA numbers came out. Larger engine, 40% more powerful, and the same EPA numbers. Meanwhile the Europeans got to keep the 100 HP engine with 20% better fuel economy.

Sound familiar?

 

In my experience, you can still get around 40-45mpg at 80mph in a Prius, which is obviously way better than if those same folks were driving Explorers or F-150s at the same speed. The Prius is going to save EVERYBODY fuel....even when I've driven it the absolute hardest, the lowest fuel economy I got was in the low 30's....

 

My sense is that since the Prius is primarily an ICE-driven vehicle at highway speeds that the current 1.5L is at it's limits in the highway driving situations. It feels like the engine is too small to power the vehicle most efficiently.

In the case of the TCH the 2.4L is better suited to the weight and aerodynamics of the vehicle so it cruises more easily when pushed into the 70-80 mph range.

I don't have any data to support this only driving experiences with both vehicles.

 

DeadPhish, if memory serves me, Prius ICE efficiency goes down from about 4000 rpm.

 

not sure if i like that idea... but we will see i guess.

 

what i find interesting is that European boss said that they chose to focus on performance instead of all out mpg quest with new prius and how it will be a lot more powerful, with 10% better mpg... which means he was talking about 1.8l engine....

now, does that mean that there might be dual engine option in Europe? Now that makes a LOT of sense.

 

Prius vs a sports car at a traffic light ?

Oh com'on, my average Joe Prius driver is happy to let a sports car zoom off and then having to wait for me at next traffic junction..

Nevertheless, I am pretty sure that new 1.8 HSD can best if not even the current 2nd genreation 1.5.

IMHO, getting a lousier MPG in the next gen Prius can be suicidal when that 1.3l Insight II is in the game at the same time.

 

While the US model may have more power, but one major unknown is what kind of valvetrain is the US model gasoline engine using. If this is the Valvematic system found on the gasoline engines on new version of the European-market Toyota Avensis, that means the fuel economy of the new engine will likely match that of the engine on the 2nd-generation Prius but the car will be a bit faster due to more power from the new engine.

 

thats not even the question, new prius should get 10-15% better mpg than old prius.

Thing is that epa measured difference between 1.5l and 1.8l engine will be minimal.

Example, new 2010 Avensis with new petrol Valvematic engines:
1.6l 132hp - 6.5l/100km
1.8l 147hp - 6.5l/100km

of course, in real life, difference in city driving will be there... but still, unless they offer 2 models in europe, it makes no sense for me.

European market vehicles have many different engines offered - for instance, new Avensis, projected to sell a bit more than new Prius, has total of 6 engines, with 3 of those engines have 2 types of transmissions.

Why cant Prius have 2 engines? 1 would be cheaper and lower optioned, and 2nd would be higher optioned and more expensive, just like rest of Toyota range.

At least I am hoping thats whats going to happen.

 

The only time I floored a Prius was in a rental going up a street in Hayward, CA named Carlos Bee Blvd up to Cal State East Bay ....

that street is ... steeeep!

and the Prius accelerated up the incline. I do remember thinking 'so that's what a Prius can do'. Impressive.

 

THe 1.8 may actually get BETTER mileage because you won't need to push the pedal so much if you want some more power. So pulse gliders may actually see a boost in MPGs over the smaller engine. maybe, just pulling it out of my butt.

 

What is the typical ICE RPM in the current Prius with 1.5L engine?
I mean average drving, like cruising on highway say around 60-70 mph and such.
Just give me a range.

I believe I read that OHC gas engines like higher revs, guessing around 50%.
For instance, my 2L engines max 8K spend most time in the 2K-3K range, up to 4K when in hurry, so not very high. Is Prius revving higher so we need a bigger 1.8L?

thanks

 

I normally use 2,500 RPM when merging into highway and sometimes push above 3,000 RPM.

On the highway at 65 mph, the RPM ranges from 1,000 to 3,000 RPM depending on the incline / decline.

The engine sound become noticeable at around 3,000 RPM. I made this video at 65 mph with cruise control on.

Prius e-CVT in action: A view of gas engine RPM at 65 MPH.

 

Bob Ninja,

Gas pedal depression is about linear with power output in the Prius -- itself a mixture of the engine and electric motor. The ICE is 57 kW for about 10kW/1000 rpm, the traction battery up to 21 kW nominally, but actual contribution to total power output dependent on state of charge.

Steady state driving on level road at 60 mph takes about 15 kW. In city driving I use about 1/2 the pedal distance to accelerate from a stop. The only times I easily hear the engine revving at high rpm is during long ascents at high grade after the traction battery is depleted. All in all, my engine lives a comfortable life.

 

ok... now we of course know that video was taken with all safety precautions in place. very cool interface for data.

 

Thanks for the info.
Hmmm, now I am confused.

Doesn't sound like it works too hard.

So it only needs 15 kW of ICE's 57 kW, again light load, no?

According to this 1.5L engine seems to have an easy life and doesn't work hard. So again, why is 1.8L needed?

15 / 57 = 26%
Bigger 1.8L would be utilized even lower, guessing around 20%, so what is gained? The present engine seems to have nice 40ish kW for passing or going faster, right?

I just don't see what is bigger ICE going to do that the present engine doesn't????