Toyota to release 2 different Prius-es to US & Europe

Allow me to completely disagree with you on this one.

Honda is shooting itself in the foot with the Insight. What on earth were they thinking about?
The Insight is even smaller than the Civic and worst of all, instead of using the same old IMA system from the Civic (which would be bad enough) they have a new IMA system with even LESS power on the electric side!!! What the hell!!!

If reducing the electric component is the way of Honda to present new hybrids, then no doubt they are quitting hybrid development all together.

Have a look on this Belgium pdf at page 11/24. Look at the power specs of the electric motor: only 10 kW!!!

http://www.fr.honda.be/pdf/POD_mag_jan09FR.pdf

Are they nuts??? Honda sucks big time if you ask me.
They were trying to follow Toyota for a short time, but they have completely dropped the towel now.

Toyota is pushing to the next stage, the Plug-In model, while Honda drops the electric power on its hybrids and increases ICE power... way to go... NOT.

So please, think about it next time you say Honda is doing better on new models than Toyota is.
Toyota at least is heading the right way, not going back in time as Honda is doing.

 

Solid means Solid BUILD.

Typical Honda passenger cars are lighter in weight in comparable cars, like Civic to Corolla. This is one of the secret that Honda get better mileage and performance.

 

I bought my Prius for FE. I also like the reduced carbon footprint. If I could buy a reliable EV for the same ballpark price as the Prius, I would do it. I hope the increased HP doesn't affect the FE negatively for US models. ;;

 

Thanks for the link jprates! Finally some specs on the 2010 Honda Insight:

ICE = 87 HP / 88.5 lb-ft
Motor = 13.4 HP / 76 lb-ft
Total = 100.4 HP / 164.5 lb-ft

Fuel Consumption (EU schedule)
----------------- L/100 km -------- US MPG
Urban ----------- 4.6 --------------- 51.1
Extra Urban ---- 4.2 --------------- 56.0
Combined ------- 4.4 --------------- 53.5

(That is about the same as the current Prius (5.0/4.2/4.3 or 54.7 US MPG combined)

 

Short of magic, that is the only way to reduce the price.

Honda's niche has always been smaller/lighter/cheaper cars. There is no point copying Prius exactly as it is. So they choise smaller/cheaper/weaker segment of the market. If you suggest that such a segment doesn't exist then you don't have a clue what is going on here in North America. Our purchasing power is declining so Honda should be well positioned going forward.

The more accurate term would be "dragged/force to next stage, Plug-In" as Toyota execs kept saying that plugin and bigger battery don't make sense. In fact, in this economy ironically they are proving to be right. US buyers won't pay extra money for a bigger battery pack.

From technical perspective, yes Toyota pushing ahead with plugin is correct approach. Unfortunatelly the econimic factors are starting to dominate. In the weak economy and weak market cheaper hybrids will sell more. Thus for the short term Insight is the right car, despite its weak specs.

Anyway Prius will do fine long term. It will just face some poor sales short term. That is all.

 

If the new Prius is bigger,won't the car also be heavier? I'm hoping the new Prius will get at least 5 to 6 more miles per gallon. Getting more mpg's ,being slightly larger and having more pep is a pretty good combo.

 

Oh please... in order to have smaller cars with little or no electric motors we already have a lot from where to choose from.

If you don't want to buy a hybrid, if you do not want to take advantage of the electric torque and powertrain, buy a regular car.

By your own enumerated reasons the Insight is a fluke. It has the same MPG performance as a small non-hybrid car, it has worse dynamic performance than most, and it costs more because you have to pay for the motor and battery.

 

It is true that you lucky Europeans already have small non-hybrid cars that do better than the new Honda Insight.
I went to vcacarfueldata.org and found 42 cars that have do 4.4 L/100km or better combined
38 diesels
3 hybrids (Prius / Smart ForTwo coupe hybrid / Smart ForTwo convertible hybrid)
1 Petrol (Toyota IQ)

Most of those are multiple listings of the same platform:
Ford Fiesta / Mazda 2 is listed 5 times,
VW Polo / Skoda Fabia / Seat Ibiza is listed 5 times
Ford Focus / Volvo 30 is listed 5 times
The list goes on.....

Americans are not so lucky. We have 2 cars that have an EPA combined fuel economy greater than 40 mpg; Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Prius. I'm going to guess that the Honda Insight will be EPA rated at 45 mpg combined.

 

No offense to you, but!

This is the reason why stupid Americans buy SUVs. On a few occasions they need to haul a lot of stuff; on a few occasions their SUVs need to carry 7 people; on a few occasions the roads are muddy and only SUVs have the power to take me home; on a few occasions they need their 300hp engine to overtake those stupid Prius drivers, on a few occassions....

BUT most of the time SUVs carry no load, drive on dry road, and carry no more than the driver him/herself.

AND this is how the Europeans do: drive a small car, and rent a larger van or truck when they really need more power and space.

 

The Honda Insight is larger than the micro-cars that Europe can choose from that use less than 5 litres/100km, and is not a diesel. That makes it competitive in my book.

 

Thank you for your imressions of your hondas. FEEL is the word I used and I guess it is subjective but to ME the hondas I have driven did not feel as solid, or rugged or well built as the Toyotas I have driven. It is an impression I got from driving them. I'm happy to hear you have had a good run from Hondas you have and currently own.

 

I think the next gen Prius may have larger and more powerful HV battery pack. The reason is because of the bailout package that allows $2,500 tax credit for 4kWh battery. I can see Toyota taking advantage of it.

The bailout package also includes tax credit that will knock down 30% off your solar panel installation. Will that apply to cars like the home installation? Wonder why there are recent news about solar Prius? I think it is because of the juicy bailout package.

 

Wasn't there talk about 92g/km and 89g/km versions? If the 1.5l version has 89g/km and 1.8l has 92g/km for the emission, the difference is just 3.4%. I'll take the 1.8l 160hp version.

BTW, the Iconic Prius is rated at 104g/km so even the new 1.8l Prius will be 13% more fuel efficient.

 

Ohhh... I must have been distracted these last 37 years... I did not take notice the only cars we have capable of doing <5 litres are only microcars...

When was the last time you visited Europe? 'Nough said...

 

The difference is like night and day. I made a video while comparing my Prius going up different hills with my friend's 96 Civic and my 06 Prius. Civic without electric motor can't keep up with uphill at low RPM -- the engine almost stalled. It is a showcase for HSD in contrast with the gear transmission.

It was a fun experiment!

YouTube - Comparison of 1996 Civic (1.6l) Vs. 2006 Prius (1.5l)

 

Actually in that sense yes it is 100% correct.
My old Civic is nowhere near as safe and strong built like modern Toyotas.
Fair enough.

 

The last time I was in Europe was October 2008.

Again looking at VCAcarfueldata.com I paged through 80 screens looking for a conventional petrol car that does <5 L/100km. The Toyota Yaris is rated at 4.5 L/100km, Fiat 500 at 5.0 L/100km and Citroen C3 at 5.7 L/100km but these are all superminis. The most fuel efficient car larger than a supermini I found was the VW Golf TSI (122PS) which is rated at 5.9 L/100km combined.

In North America a Golf (Rabbit in the US) is classified as a compact car, the second smallest category. You can see why we would be impressed by a similar sized Insight getting 4.4 L/100 km when our Golf only gets 7.6 L/100km.

 

Except I rarely drive up or down hill where I live. By all means 1.5L ICE alone is not very powerful. People pass me all the time and accelarate much faster. However, my point is that if 1.5L ICE alone can handle every day driving Ok in my older Civic then certainly a newer modern 1.5L ICE plus electric should be plenty, even when taking into account more weight, bigger size. Also additional troque should be provided by electric as it is much better at generating a lot of torque very quickly.

 

Because simply making a bigger electric motor would not give you any more power. The (electric) power for the motor has to come from either a bigger engine or from a larger battery, as long as they stick with NIMH.