Toyota to release 2 different Prius-es to US & Europe

In my opinion more HP is good as long as it consumes about the same as the current prius.
Here in Europe we prefer smaller engines with less consumption. In Spain, the taxes applied when buying a new car depends of the CO2/km. If the car has less than 120g CO2/km then it is tax-free.
Maybe the US version with the 1.8L engine will have the "eco" and "power" buttons, but European version won't? as it may not need it. Either way, I hope both versions will have the buttons.
Personally I will be happy with the 1.5 engine as the main goal of the Prius is less consumption. I don't think it needs more power. If you can't win in a drag race with a Corvette, then just don't do it. But I understand many people will like a more powerful engine. It is difficult to say if Toyota is taking the right decision, but I'm sure they will have made a lot of marketing research before taking this option.

---
Marc Vallribera i Ros
Writing from Catalonia...

 

For me it isn't the power I want, I want to be able to pull a small trailer. Say 350 to 400 kilograms (770 - 880lbs) unbraked towing capacity would be handy. I know several others on the forum want to be able to tow a small trailer too.

How many people also want to tow? See for yourself, click here!

 

yes i am getting a smaller engine YES YES....

damm toyota is smart
first a wanted a smaller honda civic size ICE ( 1.3 )

but them toyota came with the 1.8
and now i am happy about the 1.5.......

 

Well, if this Prius really does get 160hp and the ICE alone only produces 100, it means that the motor must be much more powerful than the current Prius's motor. The current Prius's engine delivers 76hp and only manages 110 combined-34hp of difference, compared to a whole 60hp of difference of this new Prius.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this is true, then a stronger motor might mean that the new Prius can travel up to much higher speeds before the ICE needs to engage and the ICE will have to produce much less power when it is engaged, thereby improving economy. Other improvements should also help further reduce consumption. Also, a 1.5-1.8 isn't much of an upgrade, the 1.8 shouldn't make a shocking difference to the consumption level. Correct me again if I'm wrong, but doesn't a smaller engine mean that it will have to operate with more strain to produce the same amount of power than a larger engine? For example, 1.5L Yaris that manages to be more efficient than a 1.8L Corolla is due significantly to the fact that the Yaris is lighter than the Corolla, which means that the Yaris's 1.5 will only have to operate at around the same level of strain as the Corolla's 1.8 to accelerate at the same pace. If a Yaris is as heavy as a Corolla, it will mean that the Yaris's 1.5 will have more to pull, which means that it will have to operate at a higher level of strain and consume more fuel as a consequence. The same applies for this Prius. A Prius is a Prius, and the same car can't weigh 2 different weights (unless if it's on both the Earth and Moon at the same time). This means that the European 1.5 will, even when in normal driving, operate at a higher level of strain and drink more than the 1.8 version, so in the end, the 1.5 might only be able to pull only a few extra mpgs in. In conclusion people should be dissapointed about the 1.8 on the new Prius IMHO, as I reckon it will only consume a little more fuel, not to mention the boost in power too (125-160 is quite a big difference). In general, whatever the engine displacement, the 2010 Prius should at least be more fuel efficient than the current.

However, I find it hard to believe that the motor can get that much more powerful, providing that the combined output is 160hp and the engine alone only produces 100.

 

To me the MPG result is more important than engine size. I hope that the US version gets the same MPG rating as the other version or I will be disappointed.

 

Engineering is always a balance of design. Bumping the engine size up to appeal to a much wider consumer base could have easily introduced the opportunity to get away with operational aspects that weren't previously available.

For example, the larger gas engine could require an increase to the cooling system. That same cooling could be used for the electric motor too... allowing it to output more power than we saw in the past... which seems to coincide with the rumor rather nicely.

Hmm? Faster and longer stealth as a result of a larger engine. Very interesting...

It could also mean more aggressive battery-pack recharging, another benefit to stealth.
.

 

I'm confident that Toyota will not introduce the 2010 model with a drop in mileage compared to the current Prius. When I replaced my 2001 Tacoma with the "new model" 2005 Tacoma there were major differences yet better. The 2001 had a 3.4 motor (190 HP) with mileage rated at 15/18 . The 2005 came with the larger 4.0 (245 HP) with mileage rated at 16/21 per fueleconomy.gov Both of the trucks were the same model ( PreRunner ) so I was able to compare apples to apples.

I've been on a waiting list since last summer for the 2010 so I am excited as everyone else for the introduction next week.

 

Its more difficult and costly to support two drivetrains (dealer tech training and spare parts inventory); Prius US sales volume is ~175K units annually.

It is almost impossible to import a new or near-new vehicle to the US for personal use, that is not certified compliant with US auto emissions and safety standards. This is why you don't see new European Alfa Romeo, Peugeot or Fiat cars driving around here. So forget about that option.

 

Every time I travel a highway at 55mph in the slow lane, the parade of cars passing me includes Prii. Even during the summer `08 fuel price spike, this remained true. I have the impression that many Prii are in the hands of people for whom they were not such a sensible buy. Alas, the new bigger engine will suit the customers available in this country. I, personally, want efficiency in the Prius I expect to purchase this spring. For performance to be limited is OK with me. All of today's cars perform wonderfully, compared with the dogs I drove back in the fifties. If something like fine car feel in the old days is that important, then one will want a Honda product with independent rear suspension rather than a Toyota product anyhow.

 

I like the feeling of knowing I'll get there, that's why I pick Toyota over Honda every time. Maybe I have only driven basic Hondas but I never drove a Honda car I thought felt solid. Even Yaris and Corolla feel solid.

 

The only problem with the smaller engine is the long time it takes to warm in winter, and the rapid cooling during pulse and glide in cold weather. I don't know if a 1.8 solves that. Otherwise it has plenty of power. The world needs to get off the power addiction and learn to conserve momentum to save fuel.

 

I think this is Toyota responding to the new challenge from the Honda Insight. If the Insight really starts at $17,000 as predicted by Edmunds.com, then the Honda will undercut the Prius by $5,000. Toyota needs to differentiate the Prius from the Insight in ways that the general public can relate to. They already have one, size. The American car buyer will pay more for a larger car. They other thing that Americans will pay for is larger engines with more horsepower. This is true for everything from lawnmowers to automobiles.

Before you all reply back that you won't pay extra for more horsepower or larger size, remember that you and I are not the typical buyer.

Toyota is trying to see if there is enough support for a smaller engine to make it worth while to offer two engines in the US market. My guess is that they won't.

 

I'd get used to the bigger engine.
I went to a Toyota marketing site and I think I picked up a clue.
The Lexus RX450h has 10% more power but at the same time gets 8% better economy. Toyota has had more time to refine the Prius so I expect something similar for Prius.
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/default.aspx

 

Hi Ed,

Why does Prius ownership require the owner to drive below the speed limit? If an owner wants to drive at 75 mph, better to drive a Prius and get 40 mpg; vs. driving a conventional vehicle at that speed and getting 15 mpg.

 

I am SO glad I'm not the only one getting passed by other Prii

I thought I read that the 2010 was supposed to get better MPG even with the larger engine. If that's true, then I won't mind upgrading when the time comes. But for now, since mine is still new, it's too early to really think about it. Have to admit, though, I'm hoping for more ergonomic seats. When my back bothers me, I can't drive Ruby without a back pillow.

 

Toyota designed our nice little car and I love mine. I am sure they will do us all proud with the next generation. I am not concerned at all.

 

What does "solid" mean????
I have 2 hondas, older Civic and less old CRV. CRV I drive now in brutal Canadian winters (before CRV the small Civic was used year around).
I NEVER had any issues, any problems with either one, besides the usual rust and wear. Toyota cars may have more features, but a "solid" car is one that gets you from point A to point B regardless of features.

I don't understand how Honda's are not solid??????

 

Sorry to take away the spotlight from you Danny, but this is really no news at all.

I had already confirmed this info right here on PC as well:
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-h...en-prius-sub-brand-post750549.html#post750549

Glad to see it sprung a new discussion though... maybe I should have opened a new topic myself back then...

 

After driving a Camry and experiencing its nice acceleration, my 2005 Prius does feel sluggish. It needs a bit of zip. After all, mileage is not the be all and end all. I like the sportier look of the new Prius. I like the fact that it will be slightly bigger. Now please, please make the seats softer! If they do, it will be the perfect car.

 

The entire point of a hybrid design is to borrow extra torque when needed from electric motor. So why is then ICE size being increased as opposed to electric motor??? My guess is that Toyota is still tied to ICE and doesn't believe in electric propulsion, so they still put emphasis on ICE. In particular, they are likely using the same battery pack which cannot supply more power to a bigger electric motor. Instead, it is cheaper/easier to just increase cylinders for +0.3L

Like others said this is the wrong direction. My 13 year old Civic runs fine with a 1.5L ICE alone, no electric assist. Insight is going even lower to 1.3L and bigger/heavier GM Volt is still using only 1.4L ICE. So going up to 1.8L is silly. I imagine there are plenty of non-hybrid 2L cars that cost much less. Heck a slightly used car of comparable size with 2L is probably less than half the price!

Regarding US preference for bigger and more power, that is in the past. If you look at the latest retail reports and sudden emrgence of savings trend that was MIA for a long time, it is clear that preferences are changing to cheaper vehicles, even if it means less power and less size. Of course, people will still purchase big/powerful vehicles offered at heavy discounts. Nevertheless, few people are ready to pay the hybrid premium these days as priorities change.

I think the cheaper Insight (assuming rumours are correct) will sell much better despite lack of power and space. That being said if I do end up getting a Prius it will be '09 with 1.5L