WHATS THE BEST OIL? 0W20? GOOD?

I just switched to Mobil 1 0w-20. I purchased it for $5.99 a quart at walmart VS the dealer price for their toyota 0w-20 for $9.99 per!

I just did a 120 mile hwy trip and I have a general feeling of how it's performing, but before I post numbers I'll wait until I have more accurate and calculated numbers. I'm also using the m1 filter. I'm expecting more than a 5K mile OCI but I will probably monitor via UOA's

 

I've been running the Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic 0w-20 for app. the last 20,000 miles in my 05, and it is great. I am getting slightly more mpg's with the lighter weight oil than I did with the 5w 30 Amsoil XL.

 

Does anyone have any opinions on Valvoline oil? I will be getting my first oil change in the next couple of weeks. Valvoline was on sale this week at the local discount store so I picked some up (5W30).

Connie

 

This question may already have been beat to death elsewhere, but is there really much difference among any of the group III "synthetic" oils, including Valvoline or Pennzoil?

From what I can tell, even Mobil 1's xW-30 and xW-20 oils are now mostly group III oils, but they aren't willing to reveal their secrets. I've also read that Amsoil and Redline are still PAOs and/or esters, as is Mobil's 5W-40 diesel oil. PAO and ester oils (group IV & V) may retain viscosity for a longer period, IIRC.

But if the group IIIs are all about the same, then I guess we should just shop by price. If I change it every 5,000 miles, they'll all probably last long enough anyway.

 

Here's one for contemplation: As we were getting the "tech guru" rundown after buying our new Prius, I mentioned that I like Mobil 1 for my oil changes. The "tech guru" said that the Toyota-brand was actually Mobil 1. When I made a comment that "Good...I swear by synthetics.", he said "Oh don't use those, they'll void your warranty." As Ronald Reagan once said, when he was an actor, "A little knowledge is dangerous."....and sometimes scary too! :der:

 

Some group members seem to think that 0W-x0 can be substituted for 5W-x0 without any issue. I am wondering why Toyota feels the need to differentiate between the two types of oil in TSB EG018-06 (note that TSB does not apply to Prius.) I've also attached TSB EG050-04 which applies to North American Prius.

 

Patrick, concerning the EG050-04, would you allow me to suggest that it is only higher viscosity oils that can impede engine starting? Not the lower viscosity as are under discussion here.

I believe that problems with lower viscosity would present themselves by elevated wear metals in used oil analysis. This has not been found in Prius engines so far.

 

I do not speak for Toyota. But, my personal opinion is that they would have specified 0W-20 only. However, 0W-20 was not readily available in BULK until recently.

In fact, most Toyota dealerships still have 5W-30 in their bulk tank because it is cheaper!

As more owners specifically request 0W-20, the dealerships will be encouraged to carry 0W-20 in their bulk tank and reduce the overall cost to the consumer.

 

I use Mobil 1 5W30 full syn. on both of my Prius's. I changed the factoryoil @ 5K miles on both cars and all is well. I buy my Toyota oil filters from Metro Toyota in Ohio. Full syn. oli is more slippery than organic oil and it doesn't break down at high heat. I have used full syn. oli on all of my vehicles since around 1984 or so. I never had any engine problems with any car. Hope this helps.

 

I would avoid such oils at all costs! I have yet to find a dealership - especially a qwikee lube ripoff - that practised proper bulk lubricant storage and handling procedures

I have posted in the past about how wonderful my dealership bulk 5W-30 is: heavy sulfur, iron, free moisture, free dirt, etc. The tote bin out back has a simple inverted pipe for a breather

The use of a simple inverted pipe - with a screen to keep large bugs and mice out - violates every industrial rule for storage and handling of bulk lube oils. At the very least, a dessicant breather/filter is required, but it appears no dealership is willing to spend the $100/year in maintenance costs for such a system

Dessicant Breathers | | Ultra Clean Technologies Corp

Des-Case Corporation Disposable Desiccant Breathers

I won't even get into the issue of cross-contamination with the bulk lube truck.

Until I can receive reasonable assurance that no-name generic low-bid "flavor of the week" contaminated bulk oil isn't going into my motor, I will continue to perform my own oil changes with trusted products. Yes, I have subjected lot samples of Mobil 1 to such analysis, no worries at all

 

What jayman wrote. Buying three quarts of Mobil 1 5W-30 and handing them to the oil change tech is an easy way to guarantee the quality of the oil.

Oh, and for you water-thin oil freaks, This Just In: Different engine designs need different viscosity oils! Who knew, eh? Dear lord, why don't car makers provide with each of their products a handy document stating what kind of oil should be used?

 

My 2008 uses 5W30 as stated on the oil fill cover.

 

See, the oil fill cover isn't a DOCUMENT like Rich was lamenting about!

 

It counts :_> Self-documentation is the best kind.

 

Yes I just went from Mobil 1 5-30 to Redline High Performance 5-20. I thought I would try the Redline as its touted as a very pure high quality ester base stock. It better be for $ 9 a quart.But I'm going for 15K between changes.
The oil itself has some strange feel to it on your finger but the motor really likes it. I'm also running Redline D6 in the trans too. I have had the car one year 12,000 miles and it runs better than when I bought it. Really smooth
& quiet. The only noise I can hear at 90 mph's is the shitty tires. Anyway Redline's hype on the oil bottle:

Redline uses only the highest quality basestocks and additives. The polyol ester basetocks which are the only lubricants capable of lubricating a modern jet turbine provide very good high temp. stability and keep the upper rings and turbo clean. Redline provides 25-50% less evaporation than most other synthetics and 50% less evap than petroleum oils.
Redline 5-20 pumps more quickly than a petroleum 5-30 down to temps of -40C and has a high natural viscosity index (VI) which provides better film thickness in bearings & cams than petroleum straight grade. This excellent thermal stability, oxidation resistance and ability to lubricate hot turbo's-which is unequaled in any other oil- makes Redline a superior lubricant for turbo's and highly stressed engines.
Redlines provides 25% lower coefficient of friction than other synthetics yet is designed for motorcycle wet clutches. Will suit requirement's for ACEA & B1.
Recommended for API-SM/SL/SJ/SH/SG/CF.

It has a unique film property to it.I had some in a cup when I was checking how it felt. I emptied the cup contents back in the bottle but 2 weeks later the side of the cup still has an oil film on it. Pretty cool.

 

Richard

That brings up a pet peeve of mine: why is it that in North America, only a single bottom-feeder min spec, do-all viscosity is recommended? Especially with the shortest oil change intervals on the planet?

In the EU, indeed most other countries, a wide range of viscosities are suggested, based on expected ambient temp and operating conditions. Such as the owner manual scan of a Prius in Spain

jay

 

Hi Jay,

Since Prius owners presumably are interested in maximizing their realized mpg, why would anyone knowingly use 20W-50 or 15W-40 weights? In Spain, 5W-30 is shown as covering all temperatures that the thicker oils would support, so why use a thicker oil? Also note the Spanish commentary below the chart which appears to recommend 5W-30 as the preferred choice.

 

No sabía que usted podría leer Español, Patrick
It also says that in cold weather thick oil can cause engine problems.
Actually since Ed the fox is using redline in the transaxle, maybe we can convince him to get a sample of that analyzed so we can see what's going on in there.

 

The viscosity chart was intended to illustrate that - for different ambient temps - a wide range of viscosities may be used. Most Europeans still seem to prefer an xW-40 or, at the lightest, an xW-30. No EU auto maker recommends or allows an xW-20, not even Ford or Mazda. That's odd, as the same engines used here call for an xW-20

Keep in mind that the SAE "reference" oil for testing oil fuel economy improvement is a 15W-40. According to SAE testing, the noted fuel economy improvement on the test engine is on the order of 2-5% over the reference oil. Most likely, we will never notice the fuel economy "improvement"

A couple of summers ago, I had some leftover 15W-40 after changing the oil out in the hobby farm tractor and work truck. Not wanting to keep it another year, and with an oil change soon due on my Prius, I ran it the entire summer in my Prius.

Compared to the Mobil 1 5W-30 I was using, the Esso XD3 15W-40 had minor impact on fuel economy, in summer conditions. For example, on a given stretch of Trans Canada where I was using 5.2 l/100km, with the 15W-40 I was using 5.3 l/100km. That's 54.3 miles per Imperial gallon vs 53.2 miles per imperial gallon. In summer I have never noticed any difference running Mobil 1 5W-30, 0W-30, or 0W-20 for that matter

I first started using synthetics around 25 years ago due to proven cold temp performance. At the time, Esso had a new-to-market HD "arctic" oil, a 0W-30, and I agreed to try it. Folks thought I was nuts, the motor will explode, etc. Oddly enough, when the power quit at work during a -30 coldsnap, I was the only one who got my car started

In the end, it gets right down to common sense and an understanding of what various global oil specs mean. Compared to ACEA European specs, our API specs are truly bottom feeder. If an oil is well formulated, it can function over a wide temp range at extended oil change intervals

As an example, Castrol makes a 0W-30 for use in VW and Audi engines in Europe. This oil is designed for 2 year, or 30,000 mile, oil change intervals. That oil is hard to find here, the Castrol Syntec 0W-30 we can buy is made in Germany, but meets the older spec.

Mobil also makes a 0W-40 that meets current Mercedes and BMW specs. This oil is suitable for up to 18 month or 18,000 mile intervals, and is readily available here as Mobil 1 European Car Formula

I use Mobil 1 0W-40 year round in my FJ, as I had odd used oil analysis results from running the recommended 5W-30. I use Mobil 1 0W-20 year round in the Prius, as the used oil analysis has always been better with the 0W-20, vs the 0W-30. Perhaps the frequent start/stop cycle works better with the 0W-20.

To further confuse the issue, in Japan the Prius has a range of viscosity from 0W-20 to 10W-30. It's interesting how different markets have different requirements

 

Hi Jay,

I agree that in the summer, fuel economy differences resulting from the use of various viscosities will be hard to notice. Note that, in the Japanese-language table which you attached, 0W-20 has an * next to it. I wonder what the * note says. Also note that the Japanese-language table does not allow 40- or 50-weight oils.