the gas bladder: exposed!

all north american Prius have the bladder.

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

This really annoys me. Why would the USA require different standards than the rest of the world? China and India are polluting the world so much nore than than the usa is, in particularly regards to Co2 emissions. In fact, my understanding is that China has said that it's 'their turn" to catch up to what the usa has accomplished over the last 100 years economically. It is one thing to set an example and to do what we think "is right", but if China's pollution contributes 50% of the world's pollution and we contribute, say 15%, what is the real issue here? Are we killing ourselves to make a decent contribution while the rest of the world doesn't give a rip and goes on to ruin the earth's environment?

I don't mind if we do our best to be good stewards, but to what extent, and are we demanding the same things from other countries?

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

In this the bladder is an advanced technology so we burn, not evaporate, our gas.

Bob Wilson

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

You wouldn't want to live in a Chinese city; you can't breath. It used to be like that in the U.S.; I don't want to go back to it.

Tom

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

I remember my first drive to California in 1972 and being on an access ramp when the pollution caused my eyes to tear-up like they had when I went through the gas chamber training in the Marines. I made it through the access ramp but soon found a wash cloth to wet down and wipe my eyes. It was blinding as well a choking.

From my standpoint, not having to wear a gas mask while driving; not having to put up with smoker's cough from driving; and converting all of the gas into relatively inert gases; this is a fundamental USA health requirement. Then there is the economic impact.

As we become better at efficiently using our transportation and other energy sources, we reduce future loss of our wealth. That is another fundamental reason why we come first and that means seeing the whole picture, beyond the faux economics of those who want to destroy both our heath and future economic wealth.

Bob Wilson

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

The "look here" link is broken. Can someone fix it? Thanks.

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

Well actually on a per capita basis the USA polutes about 4 times worse than China or India.

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

The broken link should be thread 29844.
.
See this discussion on how to translate broken thread number links
into their new counterparts.
.
_H*

 

Well, I commend Toyota for doing their best to keep things clean, but I'm still left wondering about the whole bladder thing. Now that I'm driving a TCH (though my great little Prius is still here, in my son's custody), I can't believe how un-scary and un-worrisome refueling has become. It will fill right to the neck with no fuss at all -- perfect for its OCD owner... But more on point, if they were able to make the TCH as clean as it is, with no bladder, why on earth does the Prius really need this Rube Goldberg regurgitating fuel tank???

I'd venture to speculate that all of the bulk raw fuel eruptions experienced by brand new Prius owners have gone a long way toward cancelling out the benefits provided by the evaporative control the system otherwise.

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

Recall that the US Prius fuel bladder system was first put into production in 2000, for the 2001 model year. When did TCH first start production - 2007?

Note that the TCH fuel system is pretty complex also, with a special pump to deal with HC vapors. Highlander Hybrid has a similar system although that vehicle is SULEV rated only, not AT-PZEV.

My guess is that 3G Prius will have a fuel system that is similar to TCH and HiHy.

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

Patrick:

I'm right with you on all of this. Sure, absolutely yes, the Gen-2 Prius predates the TCH by at least three years. But even accounting for this, you've gotta suspect that containing vapors isn't such rocket science that they couldn't have achieved goals without just a hard tank. The bladder is a nifty solution to the problem, but at least in my calculation, the potential issues outweigh the benefits, albeit only slightly, especially when again, it's pretty clear that they could have solved the problem without a bladder. Automotive engineers should be made to recite some mantra centered around the old, but ever-serviceable, K.I.S.S. rule, every day, without fail!

Yeah, I'd bet a paycheck or two that the US-G3 Prius will get an improved variant of the TCH's "hard" tank, and the bladder, perhaps the most problematic aspect of this otherwise SUPERB car, will be history.

Patrick, thank you for your outstanding, thoughtful input to this site; have a great weekend.

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

Sorry for the question.

Basically when you are filling up when the pump shuts off then the fuelling process is done.

The other day it clicked and I added around3 litres after that point.
Does that mean I overfilled it then???

Don't want to cost me big time for being stupid.

 

If you didn't see fuel in the filler tube when you were done filling, it's likely you didn't cause a problem. If you read through the whole thread (which takes a long time now), those who caused a problem did so almost immediately. If you have no lights on, you're ok.

I've overfilled three times now (liquid fuel in filler tube, shaking car to get all the bubbles out) with no problem. If you do this, you will have to worry about the fuel expanding. In the ground it's at about 10C. If the air temp is above that, the fuel will expand. If you put the cap on the expanding fuel has nowhere to go, so it is forced past the vapour control system into the gap between the bladder and the metal tank, in the process possibly forcing hoses off their fittings.
So if you see fuel in the filler tube, leave the cap on loose, expect a light to come on eventually (because the cap is not on tight), and drive to burn the excess fuel. If you just park it with the cap on loose, the fuel will probably expand and slowly seep out, without creating enough pressure to damage the system. If a light does come on, it should go off after a number of cycles of running the car, once you have retightened the cap. Just check that you can no longer see fuel in the tube, and tighten the cap.

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

David---I've read through this entire thread and, until I read your post, didn't understand why some fuel between the bladder and hard tanks is a bad thing--it's because, in doing this, a fitting may come loose due to excessive pressure. Thanks.

 

Re: the gas bladder: exposed!

As Galaxee said, it's an evaporative emissions issue. It causes a "mil" to be entered and the check engine light to be lit. You will not pass inspection. Fuel there -may- also cause damage to the bladder eventually. It's designed to be dry. The fuel can also dissolve glues etc on the equipment that resides in that space (evap system).

It may not take much pressure to force fuel into that space, once you have soaked the canister, so leaving the filler cap loose ensures that -no- pressure is applied.

Please note that I -DO NOT- recommend overfilling. It's happened to me due to filler nossles not shutting off. I -CAN- get more than 100 km further range by filling past the shut-off, but when I do this I do so very carefully and conservatively. So far I haven't made the mistake of filling so far I can see fuel in the filler tube. If I do, I will leave the filler cap loose until I have driven at least 5 km, checked that the level is down below sight, and only then tighten the filler cap.

As you can see from the photos, there are no "user replaceable parts" inside. The "new tank" fix is one I would prefer to avoid. Though even that is not a bank breaking fix (depending on your banks state ).

 

I know this is an ancient thread here.. BUT... with all the good pictures here.. has anyone thought about just cutting an access hole in the tank, replace the pump, close the hole? de-burr the edges, and like .. fuel resistive sealant..