why no prius diesel hybrid?!

What you are saying is I believe correct. However we measure and regulate the bigger particles but not the smaller ones. To be fair gasoline engines probably emit the small particles too, but since we don't measure/regulate them there is little data on how they all stack up in this regard. That will probably all change before long, as I think there is building evidence that the fine particle emissions are even more dangerous that the larger particles.

Rob

 

what i am more worried about it the nox from diesels is a hell of a lot higher then any gasoline even with the "clean" diesels
co2 is not that for apart from diesel and gas
but nox is what irritates my breathing and i want clean air to breathing

 

C02 emissions are based on mpg... more fuel you spend, more CO2. Hence full hybrids get a lot less CO2 emissions than diesels and diesels get less than petrols.

Start/Stop used in BMW's and some Toyota's is a lot different than one in Prius. You have to press clutch and put the car into neutral and it will then shut off the engine. When you want to turn it on, press the clutch again. Obviously AC stops working when engine is shut off, so there isnt much difference between this system and you manually turning off the engine.

Toyota started offering this system in 2000's in Yaris in selected markets. Problem is that it costs, and that it requires driver input making it less functional.

What it does well is make your car score better in official mpg tests, so expect many manufacturers to implement the system (Bosch is supplying it to BMW) in near future.

 

I completely agree with miscrms. Diesel is only improving fuel efficiency but not lowering most of the emission. Gas electric hybrid does both either in the city or the highway.

If you look at federal tax credit which is calculated based on MPG improvement over comparable model, Jetta TDI is qualified only for $1,300 while Altima hybrid and Camry hybrid(used up) are qualified for $2,350. With Diesel fuel being more expensive and the extra maintenance for the emission system, Diesel is fighting an uphill battle. In Europe, the situation is different because Diesel fuel is cheaper there.

 

Cheaper in Europe! It's all relative..

What's the costs of a (US)gallon of dirty deisel in the US of A ?

UK costs for an imperial gallon of the devils fluid is: $8.52 per UK gallon.
(£1.21p per litre)

Petrol (or as you call it: Gas) is £1.12 per litre - that's $7.89 per UK gallon.

 

yes and the price for diesel cars is higher and also the roadtax to.

 

I work for a company who sells microcomputers to various auto manufacturers. I was therefore recently in a position to hear an executive of a major automotive manufacturer saying that they don't perceive diesel hybrids as viable just simply because of the resulting cost of the product. Diesel adds $5K to the selling price, and hybrid adds another $5K. Very few people would buy it at that price. I'm just quoting (anonymously - I'd better not mention any names here).

 

Well, next gen HSD is expected to slash that to half. As I stated before, if hybridization remove the expensive Diesel emission equipments, Diesel premium can be halved as well. So the total premium can be $5k which can make economic sense.

 

Agree for future, not now.

Ken@Japan

 

if you remove the expensive Diesel emission equipment then you have a dirty diesel again and hybrid wil make no sense

 

The key is to find synergy between Diesel and electric motor. For gas electric, we saw how Atkinson cycle ICE synergized with electric motor.

For Diesel, the key is to find a low emission diesel combustion cycle that produces very low emission. If the drawback of that cycle is low torque then bingo, we have synergy -- electric motor can cover plenty of torque. I just did a quick search and found this patent and this new concept for examples of low emission Diesel combustions. Toyota may be working on something even better, who knows.... low pressure combustion (if clean) can synergize too because this Diesel engine can be lighter and cheaper to produce -- narrowing the gap between gas and Diesel engines.

We know Toyota is working on a Diesel hybrid because it is one of the solution on their Ultimate eco-car.


We don't know how far they are in development of reaching Diesel-electric synergy and commercially viable it is. One thing for sure is that cost reduction in gas-electric is also step forward for Diesel-electric.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that we WILL see a diesel hybrid fairly soon ( w/in 5 yrs ).....but it will be in a truck.

Why? Gasser hybrids are well accepted now and actually well proven technically. Now that that barrier is overcome it's a matter of squeezing the most out of the gasser motor with new technologies and to improve the synergy between ICE and e-motor with better battery technology. There is a lot of room for growth there. In addition in NA there is a HUGE HUGE market for midsized and small vehicles that can accept gasser hybrid technology. 75% of Toyota's current lineup could benefit by being a hybrid tomorrow.

Secondly, Toyota has a HUGE investment currently sitting idle. With Toyota's financial strength it's not a crisis situation by any means, but it is uncomfortable to have $1.2 Billion sitting idle with ??? prospects. This investment and this segment would benefit immensely by the introduction of some radical new technology that would improve fuel economy from the high teens to the high 20's mpg. Imagine a Tundra 5.7L that averaged 25-28 mpg day in and day out.

 

Toyota already sells Diesel Hybrids in Japan, in commercial vans (like Ford Econoline or whatever that was called)... i think it came out in 2002 or 2003 and lineup has expanded to several trucks as well.

 

I can see where you are going, and it kind of makes sense. I can see one problem though. At this point engine sizing for passenger cars is pretty much determined by 0-60 time and passing power. These are both areas where a hybrid assist can help, so you can down size the engine without giving up performance. On commercial vehicles engine sizing is based much more on load and gradability. IE how much can you haul, and how big a hill can you get it over? There is generally a lot less surplus power compared to personal vehicles. This doesn't seem like an obvious fit for hybrid assist. I suppose local delivery vehicles would be an exception, ones that do a lot of stops and starts.

Not really sure about all that, just thinking out loud.

Rob

 

yes, pretty much that + plus with delivery vehicles, you dont worry about refinement, all you care is saving the gas...