WHATS THE BEST OIL? 0W20? GOOD?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ekpolk @ Aug 8 2006, 11:13 AM) [snapback]299670[/snapback]</div>

Napa filters (the WIX branded) are also made by CL. Stay away from Fram! Napa Gold cost about $7, Mobil1 about $10. Either one will protect you the best.

As far as viscosity, the main reason you see newer cars with the xW-20 spec is mainly due to Fuel economy and emission standards, and nothing more, no redesigned engines or anything like that. A Ford 4.6L in a vic from 1995 which spec'd 10W-30 now spec's 5W-20, and believe me, other than some mods to the head so it performs better(yeah Right) the engines have not changed. IOW your 07 engine will run just fine on an oil weight specified on an 04 model. the only thing to be wary of is the SPI ratings, as log as the ratings on the oil matches what is recommended for your engine it will work. Reason being is sludge buildup can occur if certain additives are missing or included.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ACD @ Nov 22 2007, 12:35 AM) [snapback]542805[/snapback]</div>

I agree with most of your comments. However, any vehicle operated exclusively in city driving (Low speed, stop and go, frequent start/stop cycles) will benefit from a lighter viscosity. The primary benefit is improved lubrication on startup.

In consistently cold temperatures of -20 C and colder, you want the lightest viscosity oil possible, especially towards -40 C. A synthetic 0W-30 should be a no-brainer, and a synthetic 0W-20 is better

That said, I have posted data from the Real World (That part of the world outside of North America) regarding oil change intervals, and viscosity. A xW-20 is almost impossible to find outside of North America. In many hot climates, the dealership will recommend a 15W-40 or 20W-50 for a motor that here will specify a 5W-30 or 5W-20.

It's common sense to run a viscosity that is appropriate for the climate. There are also oils out there that can perform truly "all season." For example, Mobil 1 0W-40 has the operating temperature protection of a light SAE 40 oil, with the cold start benefits of a 0W rated oil. It also meets the tough European ACEA A3/B3 and B4 specs for severe service, and extended oil change intervals up to 24 months or 30,000 miles

At -40, a 0W-40 will usually offer a MRV pumping viscosity of around 27,000 centiPoise. At the same temperature, a 0W-20 will usually offer a MRV value of around 12,000 centiPoise, so despite the 0W rating the 0W-40 is clearly thicker than the 0W-20 at -40.

At -40, a conventional 5W-30 will usually offer a MRV of +70,000 centiPoise, which will fail the absolute recommended value of 60,000 centiPoise. Just like in a very hot climate, one must chose the proper viscosity for a very cold climate too.

The North American blanket recommendation of 5W-30 has led many to believe a 5W-30 works in all conditions. It clearly does not, and a little common sense goes a long way.

BTW what is a "SPI rating?" I've never heard of it

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Nov 22 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]542896[/snapback]</div>

OOPS my bad, I meant API. that darn s keeps jumping in front of the a if you know whst I mean.

 

Question 1. Anyone have an opinion on SuperTech oil filters from Walmart? How about any links to any scientific data on Supertech filters? I heard they are supposed to be good maybe even great? Or should I stay away from Supertech? It says on the package that they conform to all vehicle warranties? And that is all it says, there are no specs on the box (which makes me wonder).

Question 2. Are there any oil filters that have been known to increase mpg in the Prius and also do a great job of filtering?

Question 3. If I change my own oil what do I have to do for paperwork so I don't void the warranty? Obviously keep receipts of the purchase, what else?

I just bought Mobile 1 5W-30 Synthetic from Walmart for $23 + change for 5 quarts yesterday for my 2008 Prius since I am at 15,000 miles already and need to change again. I have been running with Mobile 1 fully synthetic 5W-30 since my last oil change at 10,000 miles. I specified Mobile 1 at the Toyota dealer in Claremont CA at 5000 miles but they messed up and put in Castrol synthetic instead. And you know what? The mpg dropped 10% during that entire time down to 40 to 42 mpg. As soon as I put in the Mobile 1 5W-30 my mpg increased 10% back up to 45 to 47 mpg. Maybe the dealer put in the wrong weight or viscosity? The last oil change at 10,000 miles, I bought 5 quarts of Mobile 1 5W-30 at Walmart and handed it to the dealer so I know I got the right oil this time (they took off the price of the oil). They also didn't give me back my 1 extra quart since the Prius only takes 4 quarts. I had to drive back over there and get it from them.

 

I read in some of these postings that some use oil filters other that Toyota. My dealer told me that they may not honor the warranty:rant: if a different brand was on the engine at the time of repair. I did not like this because I know that Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act I can use aftermarket parts and the warranty should be good. I had some warranty work done (charcoal canister and pump) and asked the part person how much the Toyota filers are, and told less that $5.00 each, about what I pay for a Wix or other good brand. So I bought 7 filters which is a little more than a year worth. :usa2: So a am using their filter with a smile because the cost is about the same. The oil I am using is Moble 1 5W-30.

 

Sorry for the second posting. My dealer keeps records of my oil filters as proof of me using the filters and for the oil changes.

 

ace, I'm suprised that Claremont Toyota did you wrong because I had good service there. Who was it? (PM nme their names if you want to keep it private).

As far as the Walmart oil filter, I bet it has been discussed at the "BobIsTheOilGuy" group. It may be the center of oil & filter expertise on the internet.

 

Every time you change oil, filters, or anything else, sign and date it in your owners manual or maintenance book. Write down the oil type and brand and any other information concisely. This makes it a legal record and could be the difference in a warranty issue. It certainly made the difference for me when oil sludging occured on my 99 Camry. It's much more official than the flimsy date and initial that Joe Blow MAY put somewhere in your car if done by a shop.

 

Thanks Fl_Prius_Driver. Great information. I will write all the data in my owners manual and sign it right now. I saved the receipts and I also took photos with my digital camera that has a date and timestamp for added proof.

I followed the detailed instructions here how to change the Prius oil, and after I figured out where to put the jack it was a sooo simple. Only took about 15 minutes and that is because I was going slow, and making sure I didn't overfill. I would recommend to anyone that you can change your own oil on the Prius. The plug and the filter are so easy to reach you almost don't need a jack at all. Another great engineering design on the Prius!

Tochatihu, also great info. bobistheoilguy.com web site was a good place to look. I found an interesting discussion on SuperTech oil filters here. They think it is a good filter but not a great filter. They think it is a good filter for 3000 to 5000 mile OCI (oil change interval). And it used to be the best filter for the lowest price, but not anymore.

Yes, Claremont Toyota was professional, and I will go back there again if I don't have the time to change my own oil, but I will buy my own Mobile 1 5W-30 oil so I know for sure what is going into my engine. They knock off the cost of the oil if I provide it and of course they use a Toyota OEM filter. At my 5000 mile oil change, the dealer assured me that they used Mobile 1, and I asked them twice. But then on the receipt it wasn't Mobile 1, and when I pointed that out and they said sorry, I guess we use Castrol synthetic. I am perplexed though, why my mpg avg dropped so much after that oil change, and the only thing I can figure is the wrong weight, because I don't see how Catrol synthetic would be much different from Mobile 1 synthetic.

 

Prius mpg's always drop after a shop visit, at least for me. Here are the reasons:
1) If the car is run, it usually does not go anywhere. That really hammers the mpg. Note that shops have no reason to conserve gas and many reasons to let the car run/idle for LONG periods.
2) As part of the "free inspection" many shops will lower the tire pressure from the high values that maximize Prius mpg performance. Watch out for this.
3) The air conditioner is put into "fight global warming" setting of running at max.
4) Sometimes Computers are reset and the car needs to be driven to recalibrate back to your driving style, gas formulation, and whatever else the computer adjusts.

For me, every shop visit is a mpg hammering and it takes a few tanks to see the expected mpg performance. Of course, a couple of gas fillups on a Prius can take many weeks.

 

Why stay away from Fram? They are owned by Bendix and are distributed by Honeywell. Do you know something no one else does?

Just as an aside, if you feel you need "looser" oil simply use 0W-30 instead of the 5W-30 recommended by Toyota. That works and still affords protection for all those folks in the southern tier of states.

 

I've had great luck with synthetics over the years with all kinds of cars. I've settled on AMSOIL 0-30 oil and the AMSOIL filter and change them once a year.

 

This is why, Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources

 

what weight is best

 

Well, for some reason, despite spec-ing new engines for 20 wt oils, and "back spec-ing" most older designs to 20 wt oils, Toyota has set the Prius apart from other cars, and continues to call for 5w-30 oil for the Prius (of course, that would mean that any 0w-30 would work as well). Particularly to ward off a possible fight with Toyota, if you're in wty, I'd just stay with whatever 5w-30 or 0w-30 you like.

On the other hand, we've got a member at Bobistheoilguy.com who has been running 0w-20 in his Prius, and his oil analysis results are outstanding. I'm using 0w-20 in my new Camry hybrid, but of course, that's the Toyota preferred oil for that car.

My own personal theory/opinion is that Toyota is aware that some examples of the 1NZ-FXE (the Prius ICE) develop fairly notable cases of fuel dilution in the oil (I've seen UOAs with 3-5% fuel in the oil), and sticking to a 30 wt oil is a way to give some protection from a disastrous over-thinning of the oil. But that's just my theory, obviously, not confirmed by anyone at Toyota.

 

Fram is a major name player with a lot of money for advertising. It would help if they put some of their money into their product. Open some filters up and you will see. Or, check this site Oil Filters Revealed - MiniMopar Resources

There you can see a lot of filters opened up and look at what is in them. In the case of Fram, an empty can screwed onto your filter mount would be about as good.

 

You wish us to believe Fram is junk on the basis of some incomplete photos presented on an anonymous web site. The site is created by Domains by Proxy, Inc., in 2003 with zero people named.

At least we know Bendix and Honeywell. They've been reliable for many decades.

 

I've dissected several Frams myself. Compared to a Napa or Champion Labs product (CL makes Mobil-1, K&N, STP, and several others), the Frams are flimsy at best. The most noticeable features of the Frams are the very flimsy cardboard end caps, which are glued to either end of the filter element itself. On one that I cut up, you could see gaps, albeit small, where oil could channel past the element and enter the "clean" side, unfiltered. On the other hand, it is pretty obvious that millions of folks use them, and we're not seeing, at least not obviously anyway, millions of engines dying from excessive Fram use.

For me, the question really comes down to why bother with a Fram at all when for the same price, I can have a far more robust M1, K&N, or Napa filter? The first two cost a buck or two more than the Fram, and you can usually get Napas for the same or less than a Fram. If Fram passed along the savings from making obviously cheap filters, I might actually consider using one, but they don't, and I won't.

 

Oh yeah, for quick reference, here's a look at the guts of an M1, a Bosch, and a Fram. The Fram's can is missing as it is thinner and basically came apart when subjected to the cutting tool you see up front. With jagged edges and all, I just carefully dumped it in the trash, and was done with it.

 

My 01 & 02 had since new, have been running great with synthetic 5w20 and PH4386 oil filters. Oil & filter change every 4 months seems to work okay. [01 - 58K & 51mpg; 02 66K & 50.5mpg]