Can No Longer Recommend Prius

Something about this sentence just doesn't make sense. I think a word was left out? Don't you mean couldn't justify a warehouse for batteries....

 

You are correct. It should have read:

"From what I've heard, the traction batteries were failing so infrequently that Toyota could NOT economically justify maintaining the TB warehouse that they had set up here in the 'States.

Sorry 'bout that everyone...

 

I think that hammering Toyota overall for what could be a bad dealers might be a mistake. Who has had a warranty repair that waited that long for a battery? The OP definitely has an issue, but Toyota USA may be the solution, not the source of the problem.

 

I find it hard to believe Toyota won't honor their warranty or at least give you a discount. I would make more noise with corporate. A person who has bought one of the first Prius should be given so breaks. Make noise!!!

 

2k miles out of warranty...I would demand they honor the warranty. I bet they will, you just have to lean on them a little. Be firm, but reasonable. Let them know you insist on an audience with the regional rep from Toyota and an explanation why as a loyal customer they won't work with you on this repair...

Ive gotten companies less concerned with customer satisfaction than Toyota to cover stuff out of warranty...

 

Run down your local Mazda dealer and ask how long it would take to get a replacement transmission for a 2001 Mazda 626. 6 weeks sounds about right.

The oddometer error is most likely more than 2%.

 

For perspective: I couldn't get a replacement rear end for a 2002 Tundra in less than two weeks--they don't make 'em like mine anymore apparently so I was stuck with a salvage pull out of state. This really chapped me, particularly because I consider the housing that failed and shelled the rear end to be defective. (I've done a hell of a lot worse with daintier vehicles without breaking anything that this 4x4 LSD TRD Off Road package failed on.)

As for the battery issue, my guess is that Toyota is not having many made and instead has the battery JV's resources shifted to the current Prius production. Several months ago I read that Toyota claimed batteries were the bottleneck for Prius production and that they were working with Matsushita on an expansion of battery capacity so they could increase Prius production.

I'm not trying to sugar coat this, because the situation bites, but getting 100,000 miles out of the battery pack is not unreasonable...and it could very well cost you less than the rear end of the Tundra wound up costing me, with half the miles on the clock.

I wish you the best.

 

Which brings up this point: How many significant digits are there in the number of 100,000 miles? If the warranty were for 101,000, then I would say you'd be out of luck at 101,500. As it is, I'd be arguing all the way up to 149,999 miles!

Don't laugh this off -- I'm quite serious. For a 6 year warranty, do they mean 6 times 365 days? There are different numbers of days in various six-year periods (given leap year changes). There has to be flexibility to account for the lack of certainty in the number. There is no way that 102K should be out of warranty.

 

There is both a time and odometer component. You could be one day out of warranty or one mile and they could refuse you as best I can tell. I'm not a lawyer but it's hard to see how they would be violating their contract. Afterall, if it failed at 99,999 miles would you tell them, "I'll pick this one up, I think my odometer reads a hair low."

I don't see how significant digits is going to matter or odometer error unless the odometer is so far off that it is replaced. One could effectively extend the warranty a few thousand miles by maximizing tire size and I don't see how they could refuse on that basis even though the error is all in the owner's favor.

It's going to come down to what the established legal conventions are with respect to warranties, and the manufacturers know these inside and out. The only thing I've seen them respond to is a problem documented before warranty expiration. Years have been calendar years AFAIK.

The rounding/significant digits example could also be used to say that 99,500 miles = 100,000. Or that 95,000 = 100,000 and so on. That is really not reasonable.

Toyota might want to foster some goodwill, but if they don't have the part on hand, and a person is saying they can't recommend the vehicle/wouldn't buy again, then they have little incentive to do so.

This does bring up an interesting point...if you are at the edge of warranty expiration, just a few miles from it and driving to the dealer for troubleshooting would put you over, then you probably should have it towed so that there is no wiggle room.

 

They absolutely can deny warranty work at 102k miles. Like I said before, I bet you can get them to cover it...

 

Today there's on 01 Prius battery on Ebay for $550, from a car with 64K miles on it.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B001D65XKM?tag=priuschatcom-20 several battery ECUs for the Gen1s at varying prices.

 

It bases on the odometer reading, 102000 means 102000. There is no round up or down.

If you are only 100002, then you may pledge for a case that it ran over driving to the dealer.

 

If the odometer, like all odometers, has room for variance, then this has to be accounted for in determining when a car has passed the warranty mileage. If the odometer is true to +/- 2%, then the variance would account for up to 2,000 miles -- meaning it would be expected that all (perhaps 95%) of the cars would hit 100,000 miles somewhere between the odometer readings of 98,000 and 102,000 miles.

I would have no qualms about making the claim that 102,000 is entirely within the 100,000 mile warranty.

 

Good find, I did not realize that salvage parts were available on Amazon.com.

If Steve, the OP, is interested in installing this (or other) salvage battery, I can be of assistance - please contact me via private msg.

 

Steve,
I've been reading several messages here about long wait times for parts and most of them seem to be in CA. Perhaps it is not a nationwide Toyota problem but a regional problem in CA. I think you should not be so quick to condemn the car which has served you for over 100K and 8 years. How many other cars have you had that lasted you so long and served you well? I also think you should look to other local Toyota dealers. At least around here, they try to do right by the customer no matter how old their vehicle. I wish you luck in your issue and I hope you can appeal to another local dealer.

 

Nice catch !

Perhaps this message can be mailed to OP, since he has not revisited this thread for a couple of days. Actually, a picture of the odometer would be nice.

 

No, it does not. If it did then they could deny you while still under 100,000 miles. That's why we have contracts with specific limits to protect both parties. With what you are advocating I would recommend manufacturers go to adding a single mile at the end "100,001", and perhaps a decimal "100,001.0" so that there would be no room for games.

You can make the claim, but that doesn't mean it has merit. Mileage is determined from the odometer. It isn't perfect but it is easily quantified.

Really this is dependent on Toyota or the dealer's good will since it is hard to see how they are obligated.

The exceptions I can think of are things like TSB's or something that was documented as a problem on that vehicle prior to warranty expiration, but not identified/repaired until after. I've disputed the latter and won coverage.

 

Good idea, I sent him an email.

 

No, not at all. What I am saying is there is no statistically significant difference between 98,000 and 102,000 where the base number is simply 100,000 and the known variation is +/- 2%. All it means is that once you hit 98,000, then for the next 4,000 miles you are basically at 100,000, not beyond it.

Yes, this is exactly the point. The contract (warranty) limit point is not specific if it is written as 100,000. Written as 100,000.0 or 100,001 it is quite specific. For the manufacturers to go to that point, however, would only get the public more upset. They come out looking so much better if they tell someone who has 37,000 miles that they'll take care of 90% of the cost even if the coverage stopped at 36,000. Imagine how it would look to the public if the contract said 36,000.0, and the customer's problem showed up on the way to work with 35,986 on the odo and 36,002 by the time he go to the dealership -- only to be denied coverage.

Yes, I can make the claim and make Toyota look silly and petty for not honoring the warranty. Precisely why Toyota, and other manufacturers, will look at each situation differently and provide full, partial, minimum or no coverage based on the totality of the situation, not just the odometer. And if I have done something petty and silly, myself, Toyota can say "Sorry, but your odometer read 100,035 when you drove in for the first time and started threatening the Service Manager."

You and I could argue for a lifetime over whether they are obligated, but I agree with you that it is entirely dependent on Toyota's good will.

Do you have a history with Toyota? Are you or were you part of Toyota (or another manufacturer)? You seem to have some valuable life experience on this point.

 

The following string (see #3) asserts there currently are no Classic traction batteries available in Toyota US spares inventory, based upon info received from a Florida dealer.
http://priuschat.com/forums/care-ma...ng/52873-2002-prius-hybrid-warning-light.html