E85 and the 2008

The Prius will not run E85. The computers would have to be reprogrammed for that. Some folks have tried it with varying poor results. Not recomended.

 

i dont think its just the computer you have to worry about, but the entire fuel system and various parts of the engine have to be replaced to run e85, or you will do damage

motorweek a while back showed how many parts you had to change to run e85, and it was a lot more then just changing the computer

 

Hi there,
One thing i 've noticed about the PC site is that there seems to be an anti-E85 thing goin on,well at least from some contributors!
I'm a Taxi Driver from Dublin,Ireland and i,ve been running my 2006 Prius on E85 for 25,000mls of the 110,000mls i've covered,i purchased a bi-fuel manager from a company in Idaho,www.fuelflexinternational.com,there's also a company on e-bay,Ethanolsolutions that sell them[a little cheaper]
I'd advise going to the Fuelflex site for all the E85 MYTHS & FACTS and make your own decision,i did a lot of research [an awful lot] before i made my decision.
There's a section on warranty that might be of use.
I wish people would do a bit more research before offering their 2c worth.

PS,
I'm off my soapbox now!!

 

You can get on or off your soapbox all you like. Toyota states quite clearly in the owners manual that you are NOT to use fuel with more than 15% ethyl alcohol in it.

Disobey their recommendations at your own peril. As the previous poster stated, you will put the entire fuel system in danger. The Motorweek episode showed what GM change in THEIR E85 vehicles, and it's a lot. Just about everything the fuel touches, NOT just adding an E85 sensor/computer compensator.

E85, or ANY alcohol enriched substance you put in your fuel system WILL eventually cause enough corrosion to bring your car to a hault! This is what the E85 engineers from GM tell us. Sorry, but I'll believe even a GM engineer before I listen to -any- "owner" with reports of "it works".

Good to know you went at least 25,000 mi before it happens. Let us know when you've been running E85 for 100,000 mi.

DO note that the car in Ireland DOES NOT have the fuel tank bladder!

 

I've been reading threads on PC in relation to owners who have had their gas mileage drop, and it seems to be the addition of ethanol in regular unleaded[in some states at least]Engineers don't develop parts that will"just do"they go over and beyond that.
I completely accept that motor manufacturers will say this but to say the Prius WILL NOT run on E85 is wrong and i did say it was a decision that the owner must make if they feel inclined,

Soapbox,10/4 over and out!!

 

E85 is NOT want you wanta put in your transportation. Is there ANYone that doesn't know that e85 was a skam invented by the agro/auto/power industry? Sell more grain (while folks starve world wide) ... use more power than necessary to manufacture a type of auto fuel (so the fossle fuel folks sell more product) and worst thing: Auto companies can lie about their mileage. How? Because (example only) EPA requires mpg ratings, and GM's have piss poor ones.
Ratings do not factor in alcohol. So if you want to sell a Suburban that only gets 12mpg ~ if you mix it 50/50 with alcohol, guess what GM gets to advertise? "This e85 vehicle gets 24mpg. Why? because the 12mpg now only counts the gas. It went 12 miles on a HALF gallon of gasoline (never mind the other half iotw). But the fleet vehicles that get rated for E85, the manufacturers also don't tell you that your mpg will drop (15%-20%) using grain fuel.

That's just the beginning of stupid. Conservativly, it takes the equivalent of 4 barrels of energy to simply convert the grain into fuel. Once you factor in your lost mpg and the greater expense of manufacturing a vehicle that can handle the extra corrosiveness of the fuel system ... you tell ME where the net gain is. Never mind all the extra CO2 that was belched out, even before your grain fuel gets burned into CO2.

 

As the optomist professed, when he fell off of the roof of a 20 story building, on the way by 15th floor, "So far so good!".

 

How about some photos of the installation?
How does the cost per distance work out, E85 vs. the alternatives?
Any other modifications?
Have you done any engine oil testing before and after?

The best way to answer skeptics is with facts and data ... a methodical approach that gives engineering data, as much as is available, to show this is something more than "I bolted these on and feel better."

Bob Wilson

 

When we (engineers designing equipment) select materials for a service, we do so with an understanding/set of assumptions about the exposures the system will have. Ethanol has considerably different chemical properties and a different impact on various elastomers and material. Over designing for one service can still be underdesigning for another. I've seen process equipment/piping turn into a sprinkler system as the result of subtle changes in material selection (different grades of titanium, hastelloy, 304, 316, and other stainless steels, different grades of carbon steel, brass, and especially putting in the wrong gasket or liner material.) In a number of these cases materials that were suitable for a given concentration and/or temperature or water content were unsuitable for another.

If Toyota says don't run E85 in the vehicle then it likely means that not all of the materials selected are compatible with enriched ethanol service. It might not be a problem, but unless I had a full list of wetted components, the expected operating/idle temperatures, their materials of construction, and had examined it carefully I wouldn't be willing to sign off on saying it would be trouble free. It might be okay for an occasional errant fill up. It might work for a month or a year or more, but you don't really know if it will work for the life of the vehicle.

 

A good example of this is in the marine industry. Many power boats have been constructed with integral GRP (Glass Reinforced Plastic, or fiberglass) fuel tanks. These were considered very good tanks, since they didn't rust or corrode, didn't have welds or seams to break, and were structurally part of the boat. They worked well until the fuel industry started putting ethanol into gasoline. Even at low levels, the ethanol attacks the plastic resins and starts to soften them. Over time the resin dissolves and clogs fuel filters, pumps, carborators, and injectors. What doesn't clog gets into the engine, causing catastrophic failure.

The insideous thing is that all of this took time to happen. When E10 was fisrt introduced for marine use, it seemed to work fine. A year later problems started cropping up here and there. Now it's a full scale disaster.

Tom

 

Tom posted:

"The insideous thing is that all of this took time to happen. When E10 was fisrt introduced for marine use, it seemed to work fine. A year later problems started cropping up here and there. Now it's a full scale disaster."

Not really. After all, a boat is just a hole in the water in which you pour money. This just allows them to pour more in.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

Motorweek did a test last year comparing hybrids, diesels, and E85 cars to "normal" cars. The test included cost per mile, emissions, and drivability.
To have a fair and non-controversial comparison they tested vehicles available from the manufacturer in both versions.
So a Mercedes V6 gas, vs a V6 diesel.
A Honda Civic vs a Civic Hybrid.
A "Flexfuel" Yukon run on E85 vs "normal" gasoline.

Hybrids had the lowest emissions, both CO2 and other, and the lowest cost per mile by far.
The Diesels had the highest emissions, both CO2 and other.
The Yukon, run on E85, had the highest cost per mile. As I recall it was almost double the cost per mile compared to when it was run on "normal" gasoline!
I'm sure the results are posted on the PBS website, check it out if you doubt my memory.

My point is there is NO point running E85. It voids your warranty. Toyota says "Don't do it." It costs the same or more per mile to use.

 

We use a slight modification of that old saying: our boat is a "wood-lined hole in the water that we fill with money."

Nothing like building your boat from a material that burns, rots, and is eaten by marine organisms. You have to love wood. I should have added expensive to the list of attributes.

Tom

 

So is ethanol an additive in gas in all States and at what levels? I take it the Motor Industry must have been consulted/made aware prior to it's introduction in order for them to voice their concerns in relation to the possible effects it might have even at low levels over the lifetime of vehicles or where they just told it's happening!

 

Most states have now passed laws requiring all gas to have upto but no more than 10% ethanol in the gas, Where i live in Washington D.C metro area these laws were passed for both virginia and maryland in 2006, Although i do fill up at a shell station that supposedly does not have any ethanol in it, or atleast does not advertise so.

 

MTBE is used as an oxygenate for gasoline, but is soluble in water and has been found to be a common contaminate in ground water. Due to environmental concerns, some (most?) gasoline in the U.S. now uses ethanol for the same purpose.

In some locations, such as Michigan, gasohol was introduced many years ago as a way to subsidize grain farmers. These early adopters of gasohol caused the auto industry to take a careful look at the effects of ethanol in fuel.

Tom

 

So, yes: car makers for several years now have made their products ethanol-proof, at least up to 10% ethanol (E10). E10 is commonly used to improve combustion and reduce polluting emissions, so in that respect at least it's a good thing.

 

isnt E85 like 110 octane rating?

 

And your point is?

Tom