Chevy Volt and the cost of bravery.

If that is the way to do it, then GM will need to change its own game plan. The latest I read was that GM planned to have sales of the Volt at 100,000 annually by 2012. I don't think a [reasonable] game plan looks like:

2010 - 15,000
2011 - 20,000
2012 - 100,000

If GM is going to do this, they must be all in. They need 40,000 to 50,000 in year one (2010), followed by 60,000 to 70,000 in 2011, if there is any hope of making it to 100,000 in 2012.

More power to GM if they can do it, but, as John said, it won't happen without a complete and total commitment. The only way to make these sales happen is for the car to be what everybody wants or "has to have." The car has to look good, perform as advertised and be the right cost. If gas is going to be $10/gal in 2012 (and I KNOW you don't believe it will be), then $40,000 might be a bargain price for the Volt. If gas stays at $4/gal (or drops, as you've suggested), then it better hit the market at the Prius price point or lower. Remember, the Prius willl be PHEV by then.

 

I totally agree. The Li-Ion battery pack price is not there yet until 2015. Then under $40k Volt is possible.

 

Please define "accolades" and "game changer"? The Prius was heckled for a few years...like the so-called useless personal computers of the 1980's. From where I'm standing, the price of oil is the "game changer" for the auto industry...not an expensive hybrid sedan. America loves their SUVs...if they can afford the fuel.

GM is attempting to "leap frog" the industry with the Volt. At $40K+ and 2+ years from sales, it is premature to call the Volt a "game changer". Another so called "game changer" may emerge before the Volt hits the streets...and less expensive.

You seem to say perception is the "game". As most folks know, Toyota builds gas guzzlers and econo boxes like GM. The common perception...GM makes great BIG vehicles and Toyota makes great small vehicles.

GM is late to the so-called "stop gap game" by choice. GM took a chance that fuel cells were on the horizon. I've been hearing fuel cells are just 10 years away for years.

 

The $7,000 "tax break" to me amounts to a $7,000 "subsidy" in my opinion. If GM thought they could get a $20,000 "tax break", then they would price the car ar $61,000.

I want to see them commit to something like this without the help, just as Toyota did. There were tax breaks on hybrids but the Prius breaks are long gone and sales are as strong as production will allow.

It's a long slow curve but GM and the others should make their own way.

 

What is wrong with pricing the Volt to make a profit out of the gate? Teslas that are small enough to drive under semi's are selling over $100k and sold out for years. Senselessly big SUVs sell for $75k and most of that $$ is for pure ego. Make the Volt an very expensive car that delivers it's promise with great support. It would be the new age Rolls Royce. There is a gigantic market for this. There is a very transient, small market for a low cost bomb that loses money and makes GM look even more idiotic.

The initial cars will be expensive to make. Most Americans know this. There are quite a few willing to spend the money for a first rate GM game changer.

 

Nothing at all. Of course, GM does need to offer it at a sales price low enough to bring 100,000 buyers to the showroom each year.

Sold out? Yes, but at a rate of no more than 10,000 per year.

??? New age Rolls Royce? Comparing the Volt, which needs to be mass-produced, to a 100 per year automotive classic just does not make sense to me. There is NO "gigantic market" involving any Rolls Royce, and there will not be for any Volt that costs more than $45,000.

In terms of the "low cost bomb" and its transient market, I think GM has had its share of cars that have found that groove.

 

You sound so bitter Tony? I am not concerned about the dealership because Ford and GM dealership closings are simply replaced by import dealerships so there really is no job los there. I am concerned about the Design, engineering, management, production and transportation jobs going overseas. I read a fascinating fact the other day, in the 1960's GM employed more than 85,000 in Flint, not Detroit, Flint. To put that in perspective Toyota claims to employ 38,000 in all of North America.

 

I'm not buying a GM at any price ..... let alone THAT price!

... Brad

 

Many place emissions & consumption as a higher priority... knowing that other opportunities will emerge here later as a result.

In other words, they are showing bravery by letting the first round be scored by our allies. After all, when you're in for the long-run, sharing shouldn't be a big deal. We've been innovative before. We can do it again... once this new market is established.

Biting the hand that feeds you makes no sense. Yet, some Volt enthusiasts continue to mock Prius... despite the reality that Prius is contributing heavily to the mass-production of automotive battery-packs.

.

 

I don't understand where this interesting fact leads. How many people are employed by GM these days? Does the number have anything to do with the health of the company or the economny?

What is your concern? That management in Japan has a better handle on how to produce cars that Americans want to purchase? That this means American management will lose their jobs, thus putting all of the other folks out of work? All valid concerns, but better management in America might be able to turn that around, don't you think?

 

The Volt is not going to be available at a 100k units a years for quite a few years. The Prius was just as limited in the early years. My high price comment assumed that as volume went up and cost went down, GM would correctly adjust price to keep up the volume sales. (But I did not state this and your comment is correct without this fix.) For both the Prius and Tesla, the companies are trying like mad to get the production capabilities up since money is being lost for every car not produced today. The specific worry I have about GM is that if priced at a lost for many years, the Volt could fail just due to underpricing alone.

Your viewpoint is correct. I bungled my intent. I was implying that the "ego" effect resulting from the initial years of the Volt being an exclusive, rare car could sustain the high initial price. Note that the early Lexus autos were very high end autos. Now many of the Lexus's are gussied up regular Toyotas. I was thinking that the Volt could follow in these footsteps.

I did not bungle that statement.

 

There is no joy in honest hardworking people losing their jobs. However, I can only hope that some GM management does get sent overseas. It would equalize the business quite fast.

 

You should read "The World is Flat" by Thomas Friedman. He talks about the whole globalisation issue - the automotive industry is just one where current first world countries are losing out to the newly emerging markets. The key point that he pushes is that you have to constantly re-invent yourself if you wish to move ahead in this new world. So if GM wants to stay in this world, they need to be inovative - the design and engineering teams need to push the new boundaries. With the work that they are doing with the Volt, there is hope for GM.

However, from everything that I have read and seen, management is still back in the old days, they are not being inovative, and it is their decisions that will affect the production people, and ultimately the design and engineering people, because they will not see their work get used, so will move to companies that will use their skills.

I hope that the Volt will be the saviour of GM - because we all will benefit from the inovations used in the car, and there will be yet another small step towards moving us all away from our dependence on oil, but, to me, GM management just will not let it happen - nothing to do with Toyota, or any other manufacturer, it is purely GM management that will kill the car and the jobs.

 

Gotta love it! :lol: I needed that laugh!

 

my sentiment exactly.

 

Once again malorn does what only he can . . . twist the fact to infer something other than what it really means. The motive? To make Poor GM look inocent, and monster Toyota look evil.

Between 1960 and 2008 there was a magic word left out. Robotics. Next spin, please. BTW, you never told us why you took a break from spinning your spins for a few months.

 

Hmmm,,

The longer they develop the Volt, the more marketing they pay for. That is probably why its going to be $48K. So far, they have to have 100K cars worth of marketing into the Volt.

 

I was in a Chevy dealer getting the Olds fixed. If it wasn't made in Korea, 23% of everything came from Mexico. Was the work moved to Mexico because of their reputation for high precision work or because of low wages? When production moved south Flint went in the hopper. Flint & Detroit are basically company towns. This is what happens when the company leaves.

 

Why does either company have to be innocent or evil? Come on people, relax. Accolades to Toyota for building the Prius and same to GM if they can pull off the Volt or change the game in some meaningful way. Fact is, the next 5-10 years in the auto industry are going to be exciting from a technology perspective - and not just because of Toyota.