Honda announces pricing for their Prius, er, Global Small Hybrid

To which a lot of folks might conclude that for $5,000 less they would rather have an ASSIST that gets 45 mpg than a FULL that gets 50.

I think it is smart for Honda to forge their own path, different from that of the Prius. It gives consumers more choice and puts more high FE cars on the road.

 

I didn't know there was an Accord Hybrid. I'll have to do some research. A hybrid that performs is what Honda needs. I test drove a Civic Hybrid and it was dangerously sluggish. Much worse than the Prius.

 

Quite true... unless you follow their history and philosophy then you'll understand why plug-ins are not high in their strategy. Frankly when seeing it from their position, I cannot blame them at all.

Also, does this mean that they are totally detached from the EV-only game?

Of course not, they never were. Look at the FCX Clarity to get an idea where there have been burying a good part of their R&D over the last 6-7 years. If you remove the Hydrogen tank and the compact FC stack you are left with... exactly. A purely electric car?

Hummm, those crazy, crazy "losers" at Honda .

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Sorry, I cannot relate to that. Either by my own experience with both cars or on paper. Are you referring to a special circumstance like the tester either having a depleted pack or undergoing a forced regen? If so, then the HCH-2 is a frustrating old dog when accelerating without the electric power assist.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

im sure honda and toyota will continue to co-exist successfully. trying to 2nd guess a very successful company is fool's play. no doubt, they have very valid reasons for going in the direction they are going AND they are making money doing it...

if we want to 2nd guess, lets talk gm or ford. granted ford is headed (just started heading that way last week) in the right direction, but wont be there until 2010. now lets ask why it took ford so long to do something???... but who cares? i dont anymore. its a waste of time.

i just kick back, wait until whatever is available and make my decision and live with that. will i consider ford or gm?? absolutely i will, no one is eliminated. unlike most, it does not matter what happened to me yesterday, only what is being offered today.

i have had bad experiences with gm, but they are just as much in the running as anyone else...i will admit, they dont warrant much of my time currently, but that can always change.

 

This will give Toyota a competitive advantage in the future as more PHEVs are offered in the market.

Exactly. I was also thinking from Toyota's perspective. Toyota is being pushed right now to make the Prius even better because they have no idea what surprise Honda may unveil on their hybrid. Anytime you release a new product, you want to be innovative.

You are safe. Oil would have to go below $93.75 before you would see $3 at the pump.
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The HCH I test drove accelerated VERY slowly. The Prius is peppy in comparison. I hope I didn't just test drive an HCH with a depleated battery because I like the rest of the car. The suspension puts the Prius to shame and the interior is much nicer. I checked Edmunds and saw that the 0-60 on the HCH is slower than the Prius.

 

i convinced my boss to buy a camry hybrid!!!!
38mpg on his vaction vs 22 in his crv, vs 18 in the car he replaced!

i think we can call that a victory

 

38's not bad at all. Before the Prius I had a 4 cyl Solara automatic that only got 20/28. But Solaras and Camrys ar soooo boring

 

Yep. The Prius is faster but when driven normally I can hardly see a difference - hence my abjection to the use of the word "much".
In any case, check the other publications as well as the 0-60 numbers for the HCH-II are all over the map. Some peg it at 12s, while others as high as 15s or more... but only a few actually care to look into the SoC to find the reason why. I believe the Prius II is faster by almost 2 seconds under normal circumstances.

 

Re: Insight emissions, I think thats not quite right. The 5sp was LEV/ULEV, which is not great. The CVT was T2B5, but also available as a SULEVII for CA. I think what killed the insight was mostly Honda's lack of commitment. In volume they could have sold it at a price that would have been compelling in the market, particularly with today's gas prices.

My primary concern with Honda's direction is that it sounds like they are taking what is already a pretty mild hybrid system and making it even milder. In the limit there is no benefit at no cost. That seems like the wrong direction. Relative to the civic hybrid, the new hybrid appears to be bigger, maybe lighter or of similar weight (though lightweight materials would be at odds with its price), have the same engine (although maybe detuned according to link below), and the article discussed here indicates a smaller electric assist. How that adds up to 70mpg as implied in the article below is a bit of a mystery to me. Honda probably is able to make up for much of its weak hybrid system with its engine designs (as evidenced by the Insight) so I guess we'll just have to see what they come out with.
Honda may revive the ‘Insight’ badge for new global-hybrid

I would agree that anything that creates more hybrid penetration into the lower priced markets is a good thing. I'd just rather see that accomplished by small cars with phenomenal FE, than by larger cars with so-so FE. My worry is that this new Honda will fall into the later class. If so I think Toyota will once again leave them in the dust with the combination of the new Prius and whatever form their smaller high efficiency hybrid ends up taking.

Rob

 

Rob, I have the same concern that you have that the vehicles may get too large. At the same time, there are two other things (actually three) that I am looking at: 1) The newest ICE cars on the lots today are smaller (Fit, Yaris, Scion, and so forth) which tells us something about the current thinking of the car companies, 2) Larger may not be so bad if it helps to get more families to trade in their SUVs, and 3) Within a few years, there should be multiple size/model choices for hybrids (I'm not talking about Camry/Prius, I'm talking about Prius/Yaris). Ultimately, the smaller hybrids will prevail. What leads me to think this? Look at the demand of Camry versus Prius hybrids. Why? MPG.
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It's not all about a single vehicle. For example, what will Honda offer that competes directly with Camry-Hybrid? How about a hybrid with AWD? One that can tow?

Looking at the big picture is when the technology differences become a big deal. The business depends upon offering a variety models.

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In order to get more families to trade in their SUV's for smaller cars, there must be some that can fit 3 kids COMFORTABLY (as in every day, not just for this car trip only) across the back seat, including 3 carseats in a row, or offer integrated car seats or booster seats.

I think this is the main thing holding back families with more than 2 kids.

 

Maybe $4/gal gas will serve as birth control.

Just mount a motorcycle sidecar to the Prius and put your least favorite passenger in it.

 

2 kid?!?!? thats a large family here !

 

I'd purchase a Prius if I could afford one. When Honda puts this vehicle out on their lots, I'm going to seriously look into purchasing this just because it'll be more within our price range than the Prius. I bought my Chevy Aveo back in 2004 because I needed a car with good gas mileage and get upwards between 25 to 35 mpg depending on driving conditions and such. I'm not very happy with it and can't wait until our tax return comes in next year. We should have enough to purchase a Prius (or a car of a better model if one comes out) without taking out a rediculas loan.

 

I wouldn't purchase a hybrid to use less fossil fuels. The only reason I'd buy one is because gas prices are extremely high. I saw it comming back in '04 (it was the first time I ever went car shopping) and searched for a vehicle that would get the best gas mileage around and was surprised when I found out that 35 mpg at best performance was the best gas mileage rating out there. So I plugged my nose, held my breath, and signed an $11,000+ loan on a brand new Chevy Aveo. It was great for the first year but I found out that it's a piece of crap and can't wait to get rid of it.