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08 Prius struck by Lightning!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Bear68, Jul 14, 2008.

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  1. Bear68

    Bear68 Member

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    Well, the day has arrived. I have repaired a number of cars struck by lightning and today I was assigned an 08 Prius that got the Big Spark. This should be a rather interesting case since it is the first Hybrid I have ever heard of being hit by lightning. :eek:

    For peace of mind, the driver and his child are completely safe and uninjured. The bolt seems to have hit the radio antenna, leaving only a somewhat charred circuit board. The scantool could not communicate with the following computers: Engine ECU, Hybrid ECU, HV Battery ECU, and Cruise Control ECU. The radio is understandably dead. The CAN communication is also inoperative. At this point, my diagnosis is on hold awaiting authorization to order a new Gateway ECU.

    I will be give more information as I continue, (providing the insurance company decides not to total the car) and I will photograph any interesting sights, including the antenna remains. This should get Very Interesting!
     
    #1 Bear68, Jul 14, 2008
  2. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    There was a concern in '04 and '05 that hybrid would be more prone to lightning strikes. If word of this single incident gets out, the anti-hybrid media could have a field day.

    Than again, perhaps the wait-time would drop. Hmmmm :rolleyes:
     
    #2 TonyPSchaefer, Jul 14, 2008
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Wow. Was the damage to the other lightning-struck cars limited to electronic circuitry?

    Was the Prius occupied at the time it was 'Chosen'?
     
    #3 tochatihu, Jul 14, 2008
  4. Bear68

    Bear68 Member

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    #1: Surprisingly , no. I had a Highlander that had an ABS wheel speed gear cage get damaged. (slight melt spot, enough to not read properly)
    and a Corolla that had the antenna cut cleanly in two.

    #2: Yes, I believe it may even have been in motion at the time of the strike.
     
    #4 Bear68, Jul 14, 2008
  5. Bear68

    Bear68 Member

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    Personally, IMO, the HV battery and invertor assmebly and motors are so well insulated already and isolated from the car body (unlike the 12V system) that the HV system is actually LESS likely to be damaged by lightning. Unfortunately, the ECUs are not so well protected....
     
    #5 Bear68, Jul 14, 2008
  6. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    That does sound interesting. I wouldn't expect the electronics to fare well, but I would expect people to be OK, due to the skin effect (commonly mistaken for the Farraday cage effect).

    I don't suspect that even blown fuses would stop lightning from jumping through various sensitive bits... I think most interesting in your report might be the difference between the repairs on a Prius vs a "standard" car. Maybe you can share a synopsis of some other car's lightning repair for the sake of contrast?
     
    #6 Ichabod, Jul 14, 2008
  7. JamesWyatt

    JamesWyatt Señior Member

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    #7 JamesWyatt, Jul 14, 2008
  8. Bear68

    Bear68 Member

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    Sounds like the same car! I will keep things anonymous for obvious reasons, but I see no harm is sharing diagnosis and repair details.

    For Ichabod: Most cases wind up with ECUs being shorted and burned since the voltage is usually travelling into the skin and body of the car and therefore actually finds ways to bypass the fuses. Strangely, there were NO blown fuses on this Prius. Radios are susceptable if the strike is on the antenna, otherwise, the engine ECU, sometimes the ABS ECU, and rarely the SRS ECU can be affected. No two have been identical so far. Diagnosis begins with checking fuses and power and ground to whichever ECUs are having issues with communication.

    One step at a time is generally the best way to proceed. I would rather avoid replacing computers that are good but recieving bad input from other computers or sensors. I generally also try to look for the entrance and exit "wounds". In this case, the entrance is obviously the antenna. I have not yet identified the exit. The waiting game has begun, waiting for the insurance adjuster, then waiting for the insurance company to determine if they will pursue repairs or total the vehicle.

    Whoops! My mistake!! I didn't read the other thread all the way through. Not the same car! This one is a black 08, but the codes cannot be retrieved from the various ECUs until the gateway ECU can communicate properly.
     
    #8 Bear68, Jul 14, 2008
  9. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    whew, well that's a new one to DH. let us know how the gateway ecu works out if they approve it.
     
    #9 galaxee, Jul 14, 2008
  10. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    what were the can signal line voltages on the high and low side?
     
    #10 galaxee, Jul 14, 2008
  11. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog C'Mere Sheepie!

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    would a strike like that affect a non Prius vehicle as much? Would it be possibly totaled also?

    scary stuff. I live in the lightning capital here in FL as does the car owner in this thread.
     
    #11 Sheepdog, Jul 14, 2008
  12. Bear68

    Bear68 Member

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    0 VDC. Lights are on, nobody home.....
     
    #12 Bear68, Jul 14, 2008
  13. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    ooof! well, gateway it is then!
     
    #13 galaxee, Jul 14, 2008
  14. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    As I posted in the other parallel thread,,, electronics can be fried even with a (not so) near miss. The Electo-magnetic pulse can fry stuff hundreds of feet away. I would consider talking to my insurance agent.

    Icarus
     
    #14 icarus, Jul 14, 2008
  15. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Steve from Autobeyours had one of those last year. I think he
    wound up replacing several ECUs but the rest of the car was okay.
    That's no guarantee, though, because the current path could
    go just about any way and physically toast parts of the wiring
    harnesses as well as sending big spikes through sensitive parts
    that can't take it.
    .
    The ECU inputs and communications are pretty well protected against
    typical randomness, but a lightning strike is likely to be a
    bit, uh, too much for some parts of it. That would be true for
    any modern car, not just a Prius...
    .
    _H*
     
    #15 hobbit, Jul 14, 2008
  16. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    A few years ago we had on the TV news a Chrysler mini-van (then new) struck on the highway. It coasted to a stop. ECU was fried, one tire punctured (exit of lightning through tire). Radio was dead. No word on what else. People were ok, just a little scared.

    The Prius (and all other cars) are not designed to resist lightning damage. Still, they do pretty well, considering the current from a direct strike is a minimum of about 5000 Amps and can be up at 50,000 Amps with a positive strike. The voltage doesn't matter, as after about 20,000 the energy goes wherever it can regardless (and it's much higher than 20,000 V). BTW, lightning is a nano-second DC pulse, often repeated at least once, can be +ve or -ve (most common), and the waveform goes across 0 at least once.
     
    #16 David Beale, Jul 15, 2008
  17. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    Important point there that people often don't get: Your steel-belted radial tires do NOT insulate your car from lightning! Lightning pushes through tires more easily than you push your finger through tissue paper.
     
    #17 Ichabod, Jul 15, 2008
  18. ravenmaniac

    ravenmaniac Senior Executive VP of Nothing

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    Does a "magnetic" gray prius attract lightning more than other colors....LOL!
     
    #18 ravenmaniac, Jul 15, 2008
    patrickindallas likes this.
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    They DO make gas filled antenna disconects specifically designed for lightning. You'd have to get a non-OEM antenna designed for the AM-FM frequencies, but you'd then be good to go. Of course you know the old saying, "you're more likely to be hit by ligntning than ....". So what are the odds, much less the odds of being hit some other occasion.
     
    #19 hill, Jul 15, 2008
  20. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    Those devices wouldn't protect from a direct hit, other than directing most of the energy to ground so you may not get a fire or burned PC board. Usually, however, if they are struck directly they are destroyed, along with whatever they are "protecting". You'd still loose the electronics. The second problem with them is you need a very heavy "ground cable" to connect them to. The minimum for fire resistance is about a #6 cable, direct to ground (no fancy strain relief loops).

    As you implied, if you get a direct strike from lightning it's probable something in the car will be blown (besides the minds of the occupants ;) ). Good thing it's rare. Even better that the body of the car protects the occupants.
     
    #20 David Beale, Jul 15, 2008
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