I like my Mariner Hybrid

That was the one thing that was a deal breaker for me with the Escape/Mariner hybrids: you cannot run the A/C in EV mode. It's also Gen I technology that Ford got from Toyota so it's not state of the art but I know a guy who's pretty good at getting good mileage with his Escape hybrid at 35 mpg. That's a little better than my HiHy.

 

25 mpg? I got better than that in the coldest winter months. Currently, I'm getting 32. That's pretty good considering that the engine has 6 cylinders and the HiHy is bigger than the Ford hybrid. Still, I would've preferred a 4-cylinder Rav4 but did Toyota listen? nooooooo

 

While I would agree that the Corolla is a great vehicle, and that the Prius isn't the right car for everyone, I'd like to point out that there seem to be a few mathematical and factual errors in your comments.

To start with the base price of a Corrola is $16,250 and the base price of a Prius is $21,500. Therefore the price difference is only $5,250, not $10,000. A comparably equipped Corolla is more like $17,570 leaving a price difference of only $3,930

Next, your math seems to assume 30 MPG from the Corolla. The EPA rating is 29 (combined). While it is possible to match or even exceed the EPA MPG rating for any vehicle, the average driver typically tends to get less MPG than the EPA in any vehicle they drive. You have obviously already discovered this with both your Prius at 42 MPG (EPA 46 MPG) and your Mariner at 31 MPG (EPA 32 MPG).

Using your choice of 30 MPG for the Corolla, your indication of 450 miles per year, and the 3 years you indicate you typically own a vehicle, and comparing that to my real life 53 MPG from the Prius, I find that 3 years of driving works out to 70,200 miles. The Corolla would use 2,340 gallons of gas while the Prius would use 1,320 gallons. At (your choice) an average of $5 per gallon over those 70,200 miles, this would indicate $11,700 in fuel for the Corolla, and only $6,600 for the Prius. As such the Prius saves $5,100 in fuel over 60,000 miles as compared to the Corolla. At a purchase price difference of $3,930 this means that the Prius comes out ahead by $1,170.

Additionally you indicate that the Corolla is "same size to the Prius". And yet, the Prius has 9% more rear leg room, 11.7% more rear hip room, 5.9% more cargo volume, 6.5% more interior volume, and weighs 13% more.

Among other things, the following standard Prius features are not even available on a Corolla: traction control, low tire pressure indication, automatic A/C, steering wheel audio controls, illuminated vanity mirrors, one-touch driver's window, and rear window wiper.

So, more space, more features, better for the environment (for those who care about such things), less money to foreign oil (for those who care about such things), more options available, more advanced technology, reduced maintenance costs, and this with a lower purchase+fuel cost. Additionally there is the very real possibility of increased trade-in value and higher reliability. Why exactly are you recommending the Corolla over the Prius for anyone who can afford the initial purchase of the Prius and drives more than 45,000 miles before replacing the vehicle?

 

Can't put it much better than that. I try similar arguments. Just about 90 minutes ago I had a lunch meeting with my partner and a contract developer. The contract developer has a 07 (non-hybrid) Civic. He said, "Mike, I didn't realize these were such nice cars inside" as we came back from lunch. My business partner then said, "yea, but you have to replace the main battery in hybrids every 2 years so the savings in gas isn't worth it". This is coming from a guy that currently owns a Bentley GT and a Mercedes S550 which adds to the cost-conscience irony of his statement. I always summarize by saying, "a base Prius retails for a bit over $20k. It's a darn good car for $20k regardless of it's propulsion. Consider the fact that it's hybrid and gets 50mpg a added bonus to an already good car".

 

Having a bad day? The base price Prius may be $21,500 but Toyota mostly ships the cars that sticker for around $29,000. I've only seen one base Prius and the guy who bought it had to order it specially. A lot of people get less than the EPA estimates on any vehicle, even after they've been lowered to reflect what an impantient jerk can expect, because of the way that they drive, not because the EPA estimates are wrong. I drove a Corolla before they dumbed down the EPA estimates and I got 32 easily most of the year and 36 in the summer. You are needlessly nitpicking.

 

Sounds like you're comparing the Prius against a 2008 Corolla, as your numbers are definitely off for a 2009. The Corolla is a new design for 2009, and has grown significantly, just as the Camry did when it was redesigned for 2007. The result is that the Prius is more similar in size to the new Corolla rather than the new Camry. Before the redesigns, the opposite was true.

 

Nah, having a pretty good day today.

Certainly, but then you get quite a few added features for that additional price. The extra cash is for the extra features, not for the Prius. Add those same features to the Corolla and the Price of the Corolla goes up too. Don't add the features to the Corolla and you are no longer comparing cars that can be described as similar.

Yep, this is exactly what I was saying.

That's great. As I mentioned, I'm getting 53 MPG out of the Prius that currently sports an EPA MPG of 45. The point is that , considering the fact that typical drivers frequently don't attain EPA MPG out of their vehicle, unless you happen to know that the person you are recommending the Corolla to would get EPA MPG out of the Corolla, it may not be a fair cost comparison to say that the purchase savings would attain 60,000 miles.

I am most certainly nitpicking. And for that matter, I'll fully acknowledge that I cherry picked numbers that would prove my point. It is unlikely that a typical purchaser will find a Prius for $21,500, it is unlikely that an average driver will have a lifetime average of 53 MPG, and gas prices may not average $5 over the next 3 years. Many drivers will not drive 60,000 miles in 3 years or even 45,000 for that matter.

The decision to purchase any particular vehicle is a very personal and individual one and for some people trying to choose between the Corolla and the Prius, the Corolla may be the better option. For others the Prius will be the better option.

I only offered my "cherry picked and nitpicking" analysis as a contrast to the cherry picked and nitpicking analysis from GoCarGo suggesting that the Corolla is always the better option for anyone who drives less than 30,000 miles per year.

Clearly depending on the motivations, resources, and emotions of the purchaser, either of us, or neither of us will be making the right recommendation. At least now anyone who is trying to decide and comes across this thread will have 2 equally skewed and flawed analysis to consider. Perhaps this will motivate them to investigate a bit further and discover which vehicle they really would prefer.

 

EDIT: I JUST DOUBLE CHECKED. WHILE I DID NOT REALIZE THE COROLLA WAS REDESIGNED, THE NUMBERS I USED FOR THE COMPARISON WERE FOR THE 2009 COROLLA. I SIMPLY DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THE PRE-2009 COROLLA WAS SO MUCH WORSE THAN MY ANALYSIS INDICATES. IT SEEMS I WAS COMPARING A 2008 PRIUS TO A 2009 COROLLA.

I hadn't realized the Corolla was redesigned. You are correct, I was comparing a 2008 Prius to a 2008 Corolla. As such if the prices and designs of the 2009 Prius and 2009 Corolla differ from my analysis above, then the math may need to be reworked, and depending on the design, features, and prices, the Corolla may or may not become a closer competitor to the Prius. I don't have the time to redo the research right now. I'll leave that for anyone trying to decide between the vehicles.

Edit: I did the research a second time and still screwed it up. See following posts for a better, more honest, and more accurate look at the size differences as determined by "priusenvy"

 

Are you really going to force me to do this? Ok.

Rear leg room: 38.6 vs 36.3 -> Prius by 6%, not 9%
Rear hip room: 51.9 vs 53.9 -> Corolla has 4% more, not 11.7% less (43.9" is an obvious misprint, I'm assuming 53.9" is correct since the front seat measurement is 53", also more than the Prius)
Cargo Volume: 14.4 vs 12.3 -> Prius by 17%, not 5.9%
Interior Volume: 110.6 vs 104.3 -> Prius by 6%
Weight: 2932 vs 2822 -> Prius by 4%, not 13%

Now, what were you saying about making your comparison against a 2009 Corolla? Sure doesn't look that way.

 

I like the Mercury Mariner Hybrid too. And the current Mercury Girl is fabulous.

 

I'll go back and removed the edit. Don't know how I managed to make the same exact mistake twice in a row. Especially when I was trying the second time to make sure that I didn't make the same mistake. Don't know about rear hip room, but I'll accept your numbers in place of mine.

I apologize for any confusion I've created on this thread.

 

I love Jill Wagner, the Mercury cars....not so much.
Don't tell my wife.:tape2: