Prius' getting some heat from other manufactuers?

Trying to compare a Prius of today to a BMW of tomorrow is kind of theoretical. So you shouldn't expect any real answers.

Who knows what Toyota is working on behind the scenes.

 

Clean high mileage diesels sound good 2 me but turbo anything = trouble

 

Basic chemistry tells us you will not get only pure H2O out of a combustion process involving diesel fuel, oxygen and urea. What kind of emissions filtering system is being planned for such a car that emits nothing but H2O? Where are you getting information stating this?

 

if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck then guess what...

 

I spotted the OP for a troll as well, perhaps not the worst one we've seen, but a bit condescending and trying to stir the pot.....over vehicles that aren't even available!

Meanwhile, are we all supposed to be very excited about BMWs, VWs and Fords that are not here and are not going to be here until.....??? One has to wonder why if all of this wonderment is available it isn't yet being sold in the largest auto market in the world. Sounds like a lot of hypothetical/speculative mental masturbation if you ask me. When the described cars are available on lots in the US, then we'll be more than happy to have this conversation, make comparisons, etc.

 

E46, If they can deliver that at the same price point of the Prius of that day, AND the Prius has not improved, yes, I would agree that would hurt Prius sales.
However, as others have already said. The Prius is available now, and has been for quite a few years.
This car you are speculating on sounds good, and I hope it comes out soon. But I won't hold my breath.
On the other hand, since we are speculating here...
The new BMW when it comes out, will be competing with a Prius that costs 30k and gets 100mpg for most city commuters. I don't see the car you describe competing directly.

As always though, the more car brands and models that get good mpg the better. I welcome it and can't wait to see it.

 

This level of ignorance of basic chemistry is a sad commentary on the state of public education in the USA.

 

He doesnt believe or even know what he was saying. He was just trying to start a fight for the fun of it.

 

I always have a mental image of trolls getting their face smashed to the ground repeatedly when they venture into PC. They got nothing. They bring twigs to a gun battle that's already been decided.

 

E46 life is making a resonable case . If reasonable debate like this is discouraged here, I'm off. Don't forget I'm in europe where the BMW's he's talking about are already on sale.

what people are forgetting is that the current Prius design is now getting old. If the next one is as advanced over current model as gen 2 is over gen 1 then toyota will have blown the competition into the weeds.

The biggest achievement of the Prius is how it has got the USA to change opinion.

The real loser here is potentially the American Auto industry. The only short term future for Ford and GM is to bring their large selection of european cars to America. They have loads of european models which will easily do over 40MPG ,many of these are mid-size cars (e.g.ford mondeo ;Opel insignia)

The main clear advantage is that the Prius has is that its AUTOMATIC transmission unlike most of the competition.
It also seems to appeal to all types of people.

BMW have copied(BMW might say inspired by) some of the Prius ideas in a simpler less complicated and therefore cheaper way, with their efficient dynamics program ;engine off when stationary and what they call brake energy regen which is basically only the alternator charging the battery on overrun.
They also have oil pumps electrically driven only when needed and have made extensive use of lightweight but strong Bodies just like the Prius.

Let the technology and competion keep going and we'll all be getting 150 mpg on our second gen Bio fuels and stuff the middle east

 

Hi E64...,

Those cars are great intercity cars. But they do not compete in metropolitan area traffic, unless its after midnight. The Prius gets allot better mileage in a slow-and-go traffic situatiion. Its common to see 100 mpg 5 minute bars on the display for a 2 mile traffic slow-down. The transmission is so simple its durable in the metro-area conditions as well. No clutch/torque converter/gear shift bands. Just elegant - original concept invented at TRW in the US.

With skill the Prius can have great intercity mileage too. Wayne Gerdes drove a Prius from Chicago to NYC getting 71 mpg US. Yea, he was mostly below 55 mph, but the fast driving TV personality only beat him by 3 hours, over a something like a 15 hour trip. At one point, Wayne was nearly 100 miles ahead. If the trip had ended there, Wayne would have been quicker too.

 

No, he is not. He is here to troll and it is very obvious. He doesn't even have the facts straight. There is no reasonable debate about it. Look at their locations and sigs, you think they are here for logical debate?

I call em like I see em and after 10yrs on automotive forums I've got a pretty good eye for idiot "kids" with a trolling agenda. This has nothing to do with discouraging intellectual debates. It's about ridding the board of trolls. If you cannot handle that then I don't know what to tell you.

 

There's a lot more coming out of the tailpipe of a urea-injected diesel than water unforunately.

2008 Mercedes E320 Bluetec vs. 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid
Comb MPG: 26 vs. 34 (23.5% lower)
An Fuel Cost: $2685 vs. $1808 (48.5% higher)
CO2 (g/mi): 387.85 vs. 258.47 (50% higher) Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas
CO (g/mi): 2.88 vs. 0 (inf (>72X) higher) Poison / Toxic
NOx (g/mi): 0.165 vs. 0.01 (1550% or 16.5X higher) Smog / Acid Rain, breathing problems
NMOG (g/mi): 0.0814 vs. 0.006 (1257% or 13.6X higher) Formaldehyde & other VOCs, irritant, cancer, smog
PM (g/mi): 0.002 vs. 0 (inf (>2X) higher) asthma, lung development problems in children

And a few other new "clean" diesels:

2008 BMW 123d 5d Auto UK vs. 2007 Toyota Prius UK
Comb MPG: 41.8 vs. 54.5 (23.3% lower) VCA, in US gal
An Fuel Cost: $1668 vs. $1125 (48% higher)
CO2 (g/km): 148 vs. 104 (42% higher) Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas
CO (g/km): 0.385 vs. 0.18 (114% higher) Poison / Toxic
NOx (g/km): 0.186 vs. 0.01 (1760% or 18.6X higher) Smog / Acid Rain
PM (g/km): 0 vs. 0 (even) asthma, lung development problems in children
Bear in mind that the 123d at its current level of performance and economy does not meet US emissions requirements.

With its more sedate performance and bigger interior the BMW 320d is probably a somewhat more reasonable comparison to the Prius.
2008 BMW 320d 5d Auto UK vs. 2007 Toyota Prius UK
Comb MPG: 43.4 vs. 54.5 (20.3% lower) VCA, in US gal
An Fuel Cost: $1607 vs. $1125 (43% higher)
CO2 (g/km): 144 vs. 104 (38% higher) Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas
CO (g/km): 0.379 vs. 0.18 (111% higher) Poison / Toxic
NOx (g/km): 0.169 vs. 0.01 (1590% or 16.9X higher) Smog / Acid Rain
PM (g/km): 0 vs. 0 (even) asthma, lung development problems in children

Of course the Prius is bigger than the 3 series by half the difference between the 3 series and 5 series.
2008 BMW 520d 5d Auto UK vs. 2007 Toyota Prius UK
Comb MPG: 40.4 vs. 54.5 (25.9% lower) VCA, in US gal
An Fuel Cost: $1726 vs. $1125 (53.4% higher)
CO2 (g/km): 154 vs. 104 (48% higher) Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas
CO (g/km): 0.139 vs. 0.18 (22% lower) Poison / Toxic
NOx (g/km): 0.144 vs. 0.01 (1340% or 14.4X higher) Smog / Acid Rain
PM (g/km): 0 vs. 0 (even) asthma, lung development problems in children

2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI vs. 2007 Toyota Prius
Comb MPG: 33 vs. 46 (28.2% lower)
An Fuel Cost: $2113 vs. $1333 (58% higher)
CO2 (g/mi): 305.58 vs. 191.04 (60% higher) Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas
CO (g/mi): 0.4 vs. 0.1 (300% or 4X higher) Poison / Toxic
NOx (g/mi): 0.05 vs. 0.01 (400% or 5X higher) Smog / Acid Rain, breathing problems
NMOG (g/mi): 0.012 vs. 0.009 (33% higher) Formaldehyde & other VOCs, irritant, cancer, smog
PM (g/mi): 0 vs. 0 (even) asthma, lung development problems in children

The new diesels do seem to be a step up from their older models (the VW in particular), but I still don't see them as equal competition for the best of the hybrids. Meanwhile the new Prius expected out next year is reported to be bigger, quicker, and even more efficient. About the same in all categories as what Toyota delivered on the Gen 1 to Gen 2 revision. There is also the expectation that a smaller even more efficient Prius will be forthcoming in the same timeframe.

The Prius is just a car. When something equal or better comes along, I'll certainly consider it. For now I don't serious contenders.

Rob

 

BTW the 123d would easily cost $30k in the US. The cheapest 1 series you can buy here is ~$28k as I recall, and the diesel is generally 10-20% higher. The sporty version you're quoting is 25k pounds in the UK. That would be ~$50k here if it were a straight exchange rate deal.

The Prius starts at ~$22k, The new Jetta TDI should be about the same or a little more.

Rob

 

The Prius is coming out with a Gen 3 in 12 months. Any Euro-diesel-arrivista better be able to meet the US emissions standard and EPA standard while still getting somewhere near 50 mpg. Thus far none have. The Jetta is DOA and the UK Accord is being hidden in Honda's closet ( Acura ). Neither is anywhere close to the Prius.

The Fiesta diesel would be a joke. Why not shrink the comparo all the way and compare the Prius to a bicycle. That would even beat the miniature Fiesta. At least try to compare something of equal size and features to a Prius....oh wait, there is nothing.

Next case.