Volcanoes melting Arctic ice cap?

Just don't be so open-minded your brain falls out.

By the way. This kind of journalistic "question" is worse than a true question or a statement of fact. It is meant to manufacture controversy where there is none.

 

And just what is your beef with Lou Dobbs? He is has the third-largest audience on CNN, . . . . CNN for God's sake! Not Fox News.

He is a political "Independent Populist."

" . . . Dobbs compared his critics from the left and right political spectrums to "commies" and "fascists.""
Lou Dobbs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So icarus, are you acting like a "commie" in regards to Lou Dobbs?

 

IMO this BS belongs in the Political Forum as do the majority of the posts created by these particular individuals. There is no science in their opinions, only politics, hyperbole, and antagonism.

 

He is not a scientist.

 

My opinion of Lou Dobbs, or CNN or even Fox is not the issue. What I am suggesting, is that in any opinion piece that spews forth "facts" it is important to dig a bit deeper and consider the source(s). Even if you agree with the premise of the piece, it behooves one, especially if you are going to argue in favor of that opinion, to be able to understand where the "facts" have come from, and who is interested in the promulgation of the idea.

What I took from the piece in question is not that volcanos are responsible in great measure, for melting Arctic ice, but rather that respected scientists DON'T think that volcanos are responsible. (Respected science WRITERS are not always scientists.) Spin is what this article is all about,,,period.

Icarus


PS Just because someone has the "third highest audience on CNN" doesn't mean one is an authority on anything. For the record, I think that most if not all "talking heads" on both radio and TV are over inflated ego's who have come to believe that what they say is true, no matter any evidence to the contrary. Lou Dobbs, Larry King, Bill O'Reily, Hannity and what ever his side kick is named, that loudmouth on Cnbc I think is, Cramer, and his former partner Kudlow, and yes even that guy on Cnbc who is death on Bush. (don't forget Rush!)They all fall into the category of self important blow hards who think they are important. I couldn't care less what they think, much less what they think they know! My worry is that too many people rely on such people, both right and left, to gather information. If this is what passes for informed dialogue in this country, I'm worried.

Same goes for many, but not all, print journalists. Example George Will's completely false statement that "The chinese are drilling off the shore of Cuba". Followed closely by Dick Cheney restating it as "fact" before a meeting of the US Chamber of Commerce. Then of course it is picked up by,,,wait for it,,,,FOX news and reported on the news as fact, a re-lied over and over again through opinion TV shows as fact, when IN FACT, there is no credible evidence that the Chinese or anyone else are drilling off the shores of Cuba. It was, and continues to be an orchestrated effort to continue the culture of fear in us, so that we will go along with big oil's agenda of drill, drill drill! Even Cheney had to back away from his statement. I don't think that Fox has however. 'nuff said!

 

Yet scientists DID write the scientific paper, and it is being dismissed by some because Lou Dobbs, of all people, started a company which disseminates scientific information.

Would it be MORE TRUSTWORTHY to y'all if it were Al Gore rather than Lou Dobbs who started that company? :shocked:

 

Not at all. I don't know anyone in my field or related fields that uses Mr. Gore as a source for any information. In fact it seems only non-scientists and the uninformed try to use Mr. Gore as a source of information or ridicule. The people in this forum that you REGULARLY debate with do not use Mr. Gore as a source of information or inspiration (as per the religion comment earlier) so why do you guys continue to bring him up? He is irrelevant when it comes to scientific information.

 

The steady increase in the CO2 concentration in the air for the past 50 years has been monitored carefully by scientists in different parts of the world. It is unmistakable. Too bad the media doesn't report the right stuff. It spends more time muddying the waters with disinformation, resulting in an uninformed public.

 

Patrick,

Did you even read either of the links provided in the first few posts? Fox and Livescience.com? If you had, you might put two and two together and come to a different conclusion.

Here is my beef. First, if you read both citations, you realize that the Fox "reporting" is just a word for word repeat of the Livescience piece. Thats not reporting, thats just repeating!

Second, y'all seem to think that this scientific study, the voracity of which I am not doubting, concludes that Arctic sea ice melting is a result of underwater volcanos. The conclusion of the study, is that the volcanos have a limited impact if any effect on the sea ice.

I don't want to degrade to the personal, because I think it diminishes the conversation, but too many people will read, or hear, or see what they want to, and come to improper conclusions. The talking heads we are talking about here do a very great disservice to the community at large by putting forth their opinions as if they were fact. I think I am right about most things, but thinking that doesn't make it so! That is what research and facts will determine irrespective of my opinion.

I once thought that GWB , because he didn't have a strong mandate in 2000, could do little harm. I was convinced I was right. Turns out the facts proved me so.

Icarus

PS. As F8L says, neither Lou Dobbs, nor Al Gore are scientists. They are both in effect reporters. Just as you would call into question the conclusions that Al Gore comes to, I would suggest that you call into question what Lou Dobbs, or ANY other talking head comes to. That is what peer reviewed journals are for. Peers looking at the work and deciding if the methods and conclusions are indeed correct. I am not interested in reading from "The Journal of Irreproducable Results". They came to the conclusion that the Earth was collapsing from the weight of National Geographic Magazines in people's basements! lol

 

Not at all. It is being dismissed because it is NOT an accurate telling of the scientific paper upon which the statements are supposedly based on.
If the spin in the media truly represented the scientific paper there would be no issue.

 

Yeah. Gore has little to do with Global Warming. Using Gore to attack Global Warming is ridiculous. Gore had his chance running for president, and flubbed it. Screw him, as far as I'm concerned. He and Kerry gave the country Bush.

 

Bingo,,,,thank you. You have said in a few words what I have been trying to say since about post number 5.

Icarus

 

There is no more "liberal media." It's a NeoCon myth.

When you're on the extreme right, even the middle seems liberal leftist.

 

Again, from the body of the fox news article.

"With news this week that polar ice is melting dramatically, underwater Arctic pyrotechnics might seem like a logical smoking gun.

Scientists don't see any significant connection, however."

http://www.amazon.com/dp/product/0143113623?tag=priuschatcom-20

I think you can say that for "conservatives" even facts, if contradictory of what you believe, are liberal.

 

So, try to explain why icarus even bothered to bring up Lou Dobbs if he wasn't trying to shoot the messenger or the message.

I read the links. OK, so volcanoes are erupting under the ice . . . but they think it is not a cause of ice melting. OK, so why even bother mentioning Lou Dobbs?

 

I can defend myself. I mentioned Lou Dobbs, because in trying to determine any POSSIBLE spin to the article, I came across Dobbs' name in connection with Livescience.com. My observation was consider the source, which is what I was doing. Just because one suggests that one "consider the source" doesn't mean it is a condemnation of that source. In this case, I made no editorial comment about Dobbs in the original post.

Icarus

I will give you that, upon rereading what I had written earlier, is do intimate that Lou Dobbs was behind the story. The fact is, and what I should have made clear is that he is a mover behind one of the organizations behind the story, no the science itself.

I find it interesting that you haven't been all over me about the ExxonMobil connection. How come?

 

I think we are watching the same CNN. Just that your POV is far to my right. So all these channels are liberal biased. Guess that's why you watch the neutral Fox. Actually I used to watch Fox till sometime before 2004 elections. Whether I was hearing, listening or snoozing in front of the tv the bias was unmistakeable. Perhaps you would rather not have certain news items reported as they are.

 

Volcanoes under the sea melting ice in the arctic, interesting but what can we do about that?
Human activity changing the composition of the atmosphere causing the average temperature of the earths surface to rise, what can we do about that?

One of these we can have some influence over, which one? Can you guess?

Grant me the
Serenity to accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can and the
Wisdom to know the difference.

 

Patsparks,

Good point! Wish I had though of it!

Icarus