Looking to buy - 08 Prius vs. 09 Jetta TDI

Official EPA numbers for the VW TDI you speak of were released. See EPA Mileage Released for 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI - Latest News, Features, and Reviews - Automobile Magazine and fueleconomy.gov.

Even if the engine lasts "forever" (fat chance given it's a VW), you'll likely have plenty of "fun" getting everything else in the car repaired. VW reliability is terrible and most of their models have below average reliability vs. the Prius which has an excellent reliability record.

Go take a look at Consumer Reports and JD Power "long term" (vehicle dependability study) reliability results.

 

Your statement about the TDI polluting less is BS.

From all accounts, the 09 Jetta TDI gets a dirty Tier 2 Bin 5 EPA rating vs. cleaner the Prius' Tier 2 Bin 3 or much cleaner AT-PZEV rating. Also per Side-by-Side Comparison, it's estimated to emit 6.4 tons of CO2 per year vs 4.0 tons for the Prius.

As for last longer, fat chance, given VW's terrible reliability record.

 

Seein as you are also in San Diego, keep in mind that diesel is already at $5 a gallon+ here

By the way, what dealer's waiting lists are you on for both cars?

 

Neither car will ever pay for itself unless you are using them as taxis or courier vehicles however the Prius will cost less to run.

The prius has a 12 volt battery like any other car which will likely do 4 or 5 years before needing replacement, the high voltage traction battery isn't going to cause any trouble, there has been 1 battery failure and that was caused by running the car without fuel until the computer shut down, then restarting the system and driving about 10 miles on battery until it died. This isn't what the battery is designed to do and if you never try to drive the car without fuel then there is no reason the battery wont last 300,000 miles or more.

There is a surprising amount of space in a Prius, when you think about it, it is almost a wagon.

If you do most of your driving in urban areas the economy difference is significant. That is before taking into account that diesel is more costly per litre.

The Prius is automatic, I don't know if the Jetta is. The transmission in the Prius is very simple and has about 1/4 of the moving parts of a regular auto transmission. Less parts than a manual transmission actually. It is a CVT transmission meaning smooth, but because it is electric it has no belts, clutches or hydraulic control circuits.

The maintenance costs of a Jetta are much higher than a Prius. Being a petrol engine the Prius hasn't got high priced diesel filters. The fuel injectors in a Prius are just like any other petrol car, the injectors in a Jetta will, if one fails cost a bomb to replace. Even the oil filter in a diesel will cost more.

Prius has a 92% owner satisfaction rating, that is higher than any other car, how does the Jetta rate among current owners? This is important as it is a pretty good indicator of how happy you will be getting into your car each day.

Prius is a Toyota, do you really think Toyota would risk their reputation making a bad car? Check the reliability rating of other VW products, how good is the Beetle?

Prius has had fantastic resale value, some people selling their Prius have got more for it than they paid or near what they paid new, check the resale price for used Volkswagens against new prices.

Prius is quieter. These new diesels are very quiet, for diesels.
Prius is cleaner. Prius has the lowest emissions of any car for sale today and by a long margin.

Quite frankly I don't care what you end up buying, the Prius dealer wont care either, he will sell the car. But what ever you get I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy my Prius. By the way, I get 4.3L/100km (55mpg) across town and 5.2L/100km (45mpg) on the open road without trying too much.

 

perhaps thats your problem right there.

I would have to agree with pat here. VW reliability is pretty horrid, down there with mercedes. From what I've heard, you either get an awsome car and you love it, or you get a lemon. Test drive both and see which one u like.

 

Where do you get your information about biodiesel? How much diesel is used to make a gallon of biodiesel from the seed through cultivation to the injector? What level of particulates will a diesel engine running biodiesel emit? Will biodiesel affect the VW warranty? What is the availability of biodiesel? What affect does biodiesel have on fuel costs? Will it lead to more land clearing? What progress does a diesel make toward a zero emission vehicle?

From ConsumerReports.org - Reliability trends released April 2008
Despite Toyota's problems, the automaker still ranks third overall in reliability, behind only Honda and Subaru, with 11 models in the best list. Honda has six with a smaller model lineup.

European makes account for 17 models on the Least reliable list. This includes six each from Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen/Audi.

Yep, it is just an overview but speaks volumes about the manufacturers and I haven't heard anything about a quality revolution in Europe.

 

Sorry DunesRunner08 I thought you meant actual biodiesel, not chip fat. You need to convert the car to run chip fat so say goodbye to any manufacturer's warranty, then you need to mess about getting old chip fat and filtering it to remove all the bits of spud and all water. Store the chip fat, the containers and the filtering medium, dispose of waste residues and put up with the mess. After the fuel goes in the car you can't star.. why am I bothering, before you buy the diesel get a written guarantee from DunesRunner08 and perhaps ask him to put $5000 into escrow for when the biodiesel wrecks the engine. I know $5000 wont be enough to cover the damage but it will help. You know VW wont want to know.

Can anyone smell troll?

Why don't we get back on topic? DunesRunner08 start or find a chip fat thread. Or a troll thread.

 

Oh I forgot, all trolls know what they are talking about.

Why not start a chip fat forum?

 

I'd love to spend $25,000 on a new car, then a further $1,500 to throw the warranty in the bin.
Did you read the OPs post? The Jetta cost more than the Prius to buy.


Well start a chip fat forum and educate us.
I thought you were talking about actual biodiesel. SAFF Biodiesel.... Ask for it by name

 

Hi reewrd, welcome to PriusChat! :welcome:
While a troll tried to hijack this thread, there's some meat to the arguments PatSparks makes. Get the Prius. With kids, it's good to know the Prius passenger compartment is wrapped in ultra-high strength steel and is a very safe car.

 

reewrd-

You quote 55 mpg on the highway for the TDI. That may indeed end up being true but what is your source for this number? EPA rating is much lower - is it 41?

I have 2 concerns about the TDI. One is that the possibly higher mpg in the TDI over the Prius is more than offset by the 25% higher cost of diesel. Where I live diesel is about $1 more per gallon - somewhere around $5.15. The second concern is legendary VW reliability, especially in comparison with Toyota. Seems these two represent both ends of the spectrum. Seems to me the Prius is a simpler, more reliable car. The TDI, especially since it is a brand new model with new technology (in the fuel emissions system), potentially could cost time and money in the shop.

 

To offer a view from experience:

I was in a similar decision-making position with the added distinction of currently owning a VW TDI ('96 Passat TDI wagon). The Passat currently has 283,000 miles on it and is still a daily driver @ 40+ MPG. At the time we got it, I was looking for a car with plenty of passenger room w/ a manual transmission.

Now that we are looking to replace it, I seriously considered getting a new/used Jetta TDI (since they don't offer diesels in Passats, which is another travesty...). In our case, our kids are 15 and 13 and we do sports/school carpooling. The back seat room is not comparable to the Prius at all: I am 6'2" and w/ the drivers seat all the way back in both cars the Prius has WAY more legroom. The new Sportwagen will have decent room in the back/hatch area, but the legroom is no different than the sedan.

The mileage will be closer to 55 than 41 on the highway; the EPA reported that there are substantial discrepancies in their testing for diesel-equipped passenger cars...

Finding diesel at stations is no longer the "seek and find" mission it used to be...

TDIs usually have better reliability records than their gasser brethren...

Bottom line: You need to look at what your transportation needs are (space, seating, stuff to carry, etc.). If you do mostly highway driving the Jetta may be better for your needs. Both cars are unique and to get the most out of them requires you to not be a "set it and forget it" owner/driver...

Greg

P.S. The forums over at tdiclub.com will give you loads of useful information (just like here...)

 

Well, I don't have all the technical experience like many of the members here do about cars, they have already given you great advice about why the Prius is a better car than the Jetta.

I am just commenting on the MPG, I have had my Prius for 2 months now and I am averaging 55MPG around town driving and have been getting 58MPG on the expressways on the last few trips I have taken. The space in this car is just amazing!! I went down from a Saturn VUE to the Prius and in my opinion I have more than enough space in the Prius. If you have 2 little ones, the backseat has more than enough room for 2 full size car seats and the hatchback area has lots of storage space.

 

i have two friends who have TDI's.... my mileage in town KILLS THEIRS...around town, i average 60-70 mpg...(granted that is when i drive, when SO drives, its only about 50-55)...

the TDI has the advantage on the freeway if you like to drive 65+... slow down to 60 mph, and the advantage just about disappears. the only real advantage i see, is the space considerations.

there have been times that our Pri was crowded on trips we have made...crowded, not undoable (double negative...hmmm) but car seats, strollers, etc made it tough, but like i said, we did it will minimal issues.

but, i think, if mileage is your main concern, then, forget the TDI... diesel is nearly a buck a gallon higher here...so that means you have to take 20-25% off the mileage for a true comparison

 

The Prius gets much better mileage in city traffic. The hybrid is the only way to go. Diesel gas is also more expensive than regular gas right now. I'm guessing the VW is diesel noisy. The Prius is cat quiet. The other factor is reliability: VWs are much less reliable than Toyotas. What is the cost difference? That's always a consideration, though I would go with a Civic or Corolla with an ICE car--cheaper and more reliable.

 

I was thinking the same choice a month ago and finally decided on the Prius as the more logical choice. I've been a VW guy for a very long time and have had excellent reliable Veedubs. Buying a Toyota to me was awful, but I knew it was the right decision for my family.

We've had the Prius for only a week now, and my wife has been averaging mid 50 to sometimes low 60s mpg - far better than we expected but knew was possible given reports. In terms of fuel economics - the Prius wins hands down and the TDI just can't touch those numbers, especially considering gas/diesel cost difference.

VW TDIs have historically run forever, but Prius is now at the peak of its generation since the model has been running since 2004 and has been tweaked and perfected to its current state. We also all know now the traction batteries can last 200,000+ miles.

Oh, and I'm still amazed at how much back seat room the Prius has.

 

To the original poster, have you done the math as far as cost over time?

As an example, let's take a situation in which all the variables are skewed in favor of the Jetta. Let's say you drive 12,000 miles a year, using fuel costs in my area in the midwest (likely consertative costs at this point) in which diesel costs $4.67/gallon (and also assuming you don't end up adding any anti-gelling or cetane boosters to it with every fill up), and it gets 55mpg all day long. Then, let's take a Prius, 12,000 miles a year, at a cost of $3.96/gallon and a measly 40mpg. If you run these numbers, you will see, that in the absolute BEST case scenario in favor of Jetta, the Jetta will cost you $1,018.90 in fuel and the Prius will cost you $1,188 in fuel. Now, the likelihood of a Jetta getting 55mpg and a Prius getting 40mpg all day long is slim to none.

Now, let's say we bump the numbers around a little bit and use numbers that aren't such a long shot, and in fact, we'll say they "tie" each other. Let's assume the Prius and Jetta both get 48mpg overall. Now, the Jetta costs $1,167.50 and the Prius only $990 so the Jetta costs $177 more per year.



Let's take one more scenario, this time in the Prius' favor. Let's say the Jetta only got 38mpg and the Prius got 60mpg. Now, the Jetta costs $1,474.74 and the Prius $792.00.

The point is, in the absolute BEST case scenario for the Jetta, the Jetta could only save you about $170 a year in fuel costs. In the worst case scenario for the Jetta, the Jetta will cost $683 more. A "happy medium" somewhere between the two is the most likely scenario.

Much of what I just said will be affected by how many miles you actually drive, and how fuel prices continue to change. My opinion is that the days of cheap gas are over, and as long as diesel now costs 20-30% more than regular 87 unleaded, then the benefits of 20-30% extra fuel economy with diesel are pointless. One year ago, diesel only cost $2.89 a gallon and was almost the same price as regular gas. Diesel used to be cheaper a couple years ago before the feds required a lower sulfur content.

If you drive more than 12,000 miles a year, the differences in fuel costs between the two will be even larger. The higher fuel costs get, especially with diesel rising faster and more than regular gas, the greater the difference in fuel costs will be. And basically, all of these differences equate to better savings with the Prius.

Not only that, but diesel requires additives to really run happy. If you live in an area where it will get below 30F, you will need to be adding anti-gel during the cold months. And even with the anti-gel additive, you will still want to use an engine block heater (or heated garage) if the temps are below 0F. Not to mention, there are two grades of diesel, and the cheaper fuel is for summer time warm temps only. Not to mention, diesel likes a cetane booster (similar concept to an octane booster). I owned a truck with a diesel. It was a real pain in the arse in wintertime. It always needed to be plugged in (engine block heater), and often needed to be left running for long periods of time if an outlet wasn't available. If you've ever lived in a cold climate, you may have always noticed diesel vehicles are often left running in parking lots.

I will through 2 more cents in. I own a 2002 Prius with 126,000 miles. The car is as tight and quiet as any new car can be. I just drive a 2004 Jetta TDI (loaded) with only 59,000 miles for about 200 miles. I was VERY disappointed and very glad I did not buy the TDI. The engine ran rough comparatively speaking, and the car in general had a lot of rattles, creaks, and groans that a relatively new car just shouldn't have (or at least a Toyota wouldn't have). It just felt cheap. The Jetta and VW diesels have been around for a LONG time, a lot longer than the Prius, but Toyota has built a better vehicle in a shorter period of time (in my humble opinion).

 

A few questions about the TDI:

1.) Didn't they have problems when the first of the last generation of diesel motors came out?

2.) Isn't the 1.9 a new design?

If these things are true, I would be a little wary of being the Beta tester, as it were, for the new generation of motors.

Friend at work found out I am interested in a hybrid. He has a Jetta with a TDI and manual transmission (last year before they laid off making them).

He thinks biodiesel is the wave of the future. He claims (and I do believe him) to be able to get 55+ mpg on the interstate with his Volkswagen.

I'm sure, however, that the Prius beats him hands down around town. Plus, I need an automatic transmission-wife absolutely cannot drive a stick (and I'll admit, I'm probably a bit rusty at it, too). I've never seen a TDI with an auto-don't know if they exist, but if they do, they appear to be few and far between, at least in my area.

If I was looking for an interstate cruiser, I would probably look harder at the TDI. My gut tells me the Prius is probably the better all around vehicle, though.

 

I'm curious. I see you (OP) are in San Diego. I know MA is a CA Emissions state and you cannot buy a new diesel car here. Are you sure a new TDI is really even an option? I know when I was in the same situation I was told they could only be grandfathered in as pre-owned,. meaning a minimum of 7500k/mi I believe.

Other than that I can only echo what has been said above. VW reliability is questionable at best. Diesel fuel is about $5/gallon, they are noisy, smelly and the Prius actually has MORE passenger space. TDI has more cargo space but that added rear seat passenger space is significant if you have kids in carseats.



PRIUS

VW TDI