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Passenger Air vs. HV Battery Cooling Air

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Rokeby, Jun 25, 2008.

  1. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    I am trying to puzzle out the relationship between how passenger [hereafter,
    "pax"] compartment air is handled as compared to HV battery cooling air.

    I would greatly appreciate any comments, other sites, etc, on my thoughts
    below.

    What I think I know: (Windows closed)

    The HV battery is cooled via air through the vent on the pax side of the rear
    seat backrest.

    The HV battery cooling vent is open all the time, that is, it is capable of
    passing air whenever the pax compartment is pressurized. HV battery
    cooling can be supplemented by a small fan in the ductwork that is
    controlled by a thermostat inside the HV battery containment.

    HV battery cooling air is exhausted at the left rear of the body, under the
    rear fender plastic cover piece. For pix, see:

    http://priuschat.com/forums/care-ma...g/37794-high-hv-battery-temp-cooling-fan.html

    There are two basic conditions for pax compartment air circulation: outside
    air and recirculated air.

    When outside air is selected, the pax compartment is under a slight positive
    pressure.

    Outside pax compartment air comes from a plenum at the base of the
    windshield.

    My unanswered questions (Windows closed)

    1. Where is outside pax compartment air exhausted?

    2. If outside air is exhausted through the HV battery cooling ductwork, is
    this the sole exhaust?

    3. If outside air is exhausted through the HV battery cooling ductwork, and
    the vent near the rear seat is blocked, can there be any airflow from outside
    the car into the pax compartment?

    4. If the pax air is set to recirc, then presumably the pax compartment is
    not pressurized. If the HV cooling fan were to come on, where does the air
    come from outside the car to allow positive air flow through the HV battery?

    5. Does having the A/C running have any relevance to pax compartment or
    HV battery air supply source or exhaust routing?
     
  2. Bill Merchant

    Bill Merchant absit invidia

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    1. There's a similar exhaust port on the left side.
    2. No, see above.
    3. Sure, see 1, and the cabin is not completely airtight, except for the Hang Zheng.
    4. Watch out for this situation. Your head will explode unless there is sufficient vacuum inside to balance. Also, some outside air comes in even in recirc.
    5. If you are comfortable, the HV battery will be too.
     
  3. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Of course it goes without saying, never actually block the battery vent.
     
  4. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    Bill and Pat,

    Thanks guys. I won't block that vent. I've got to wondering...

    Posts have reported that HV battery temps can be reduced by opening the pax
    rear window for a while. I'm just wondering if, on really warmish days, you
    couldn't help HV battery cooling along by supplying outside air directly to the
    HV battery, without sending it through the pax compartment. That way it
    seems like you could run the A/C at a reduced setting to keep cool yourself.

    I am contemplating an insert for the rear pax-side window with a NACA style
    duct leading directly to the HV battery vent -- overkill? First, I'm trying to
    understand the airflow supply/exhaust in the car.
     
  5. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    You can try but personally I wouldn't bother. If the AC in in recirculate it isn't working any harder and if the battery needs cooling the fan will come on. I wonder if the battery cooling fan comes on, does the AC go into vent mode too?
    If not, where does the air come from to replace what the fan pumps through the battery and out of the car?
     
  6. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    Again, even on "recirc" there is some outside air being used by the A/C system. This is because even engineers ( ;) ) want to slightly pressurize the cabin. Mainly to ensure dust will not enter, but in the case of the Prius, to also supply battery cooling air.
     
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Regarding this query, note that there are two large rectangular vents on either side of the vehicle (potential entry points for rodents.) The rear bumper cover hides both vents from view. When the hatch trim is removed, the vents are visible.
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    This is from the new-car-features manual for the 2001-2003 generation, but I expect it would be true of the later model as well:

    Battery ECU Forced Fresh Air Mode:

    When the air conditioning ECU receives the forced fresh air mode signal from the battery ECU via the HV ECU and the ECM, the damper forcefully switches to the FRESH mode. (p. 171)

    -Chap
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Again reporting on NHW11 (a 2001). When I noticed (Graham Davies miniscanner) that the HV battery temperature was higher than desired, I would use the A/C on flow-through, not recirc mode. The battery cooling was much faster this way, than in recirc mode.
     
  10. archae86

    archae86 Member

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    That sounds as though the car can provide the traction battery temperature on the CAN bus. It sure would be nice if someone could figure out an XGAUGE coding for the ScangaugeII which would display this.
     
  11. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    My thanks to the posters who have come up on this non-earthshaking
    matter. This is purely a "thought experiment" at this point. From your
    responses, it is clear that I didn't know as much as I thought I did.

    From other inquiries I've made into the whole fuel tank/fuel vapor area, and
    into the functioning of the brakes, it is clear to me that this is a vehicle of
    systems -- and subsystems and meta systems. And so, intuition and logic
    aren't enough to really understand what's happening. This lead me to a
    suspicion that the pax air and the HV battery cooling air systems would have
    some tight linkages.

    Chap's post has a good example:

    In addition to the air supplies and exhaust, I've thought about the pax air
    HEPA filter. At first view, it seems much larger than would be necessary to
    clean the air for human respiration. OK, it gets dirty so it needs to be larger.
    It also must work at low speed/low pressure, as well as high speed high
    pressure. It seems that it must also be sized for HV battery flow through. So
    there's the probability that dust free air is better for the battery as well.

    For viewers unfamiliar with NACA ducts visit this site:

    SPEKTR PRODUCTS DUCTS AND VENTS

    Well, a NACA duct would have no dust protection, and could in fact suck in
    bugs, other stuff floating about, and even small birds -- I bet that would put
    the nix on any warranty claim. Even though I see any such system as easily
    mounted/unmounted, as Pat says, on balance it probably is not worth the
    trouble/expense.

    But all this does raise a non-linear thought. When there is finally a set
    of good looking, rear wheel skirts/spats available, I wonder what the effect
    of pressurizing the rear wheel well with a NACA duct in the skirt/spat would
    be. :brick:

    Back off boys and girls, its only a thought experiment ! ! :behindsofa: