THE Solution to our Oil Addiction

Read the thread before posting, please.

 

EVERY new construction house/building should be required to have solar panels and be on the grid. Victory Gardens will come back in style. Walking and biking provide exercise and fuel savings. Everyone will eventually go back to smaller cars and rent the big SUVs only when needed. I am kind of glad the wake-up call has been sounded. I'd like to see the comeback of electric trolleys in Philly as the buses are quite obnoxious. Luckily for Septa .... commuter trains in our area are still electric.

We always grow our own garden each year. We drive a Prius and a MINI Cooper. We are considering our solar / wind turbine options and plan to get on the grid as our house is all electric. It is a shame we are spending so much money on a war that is basically about oil when we should be spending it on ways to use less oil!

 

OK, I get it -- there's now a bunch of bicycle advocates posting here, that's why the fact level has fallen below the usual PriusChat standards. And why the out-of-place comments about digging my car and demonizing bicyclists.

I went back to look at the referencing thread. Wow, anybody who thinks Prius owners are smug should take a look there. And what an amazing level of dishonesty in reporting the arguments of this thread, particularly by the OP. Hey, dude, if you're going to quote what I say, don't cherry pick the parts that appear to make you look smarter, put down all the relevant information and let your readers decide based on the facts.

Anyway, the OP stated that (my paraphrase) if we just converted all our car miles to bike miles, we'd be free of fossil fuels.

I think that's wrong, because of the fossil fuels used to create food.

But if you bike advocates want to believe that the energy to power 12,000 miles per person per year, on a bike, comes from pixie dust, that's fine. There's clearly nothing I can do to change that. Or even, apparently to get some of you to read the entire thread before posting.

I even accommodated you all to the point of actually calculating how many miles you could extract out of the current US dietary excess. No, it's nowhere near the number of miles currently driven. In retrospect, what a waste of my time to have bothered to do that.

The only plausible argument I've seen is the last one, if we biked we'd eat less meat. If that were cause-and-effect, then, yes, you could probably liberate enough fossil-fuel use out of reduced meat production to offset the additional total calories required to move those bicycle miles. Back of the envelope, 12000 miles per year equates to just about 1000 food calories per day at 30 calories per mile. If we could reduce average fossil fuel calories per food calorie from the current 10 to about 7, then yes, a shift in diet alone would leave fossil fuel use for food unchanged, at that higher food consumption rate. At least the last one is plausible.

I'm done posting in this thread, and I sincerely hope you guys don't hang around PriusChat.

 

No flak here.

I commute on my bicycle nearly every day - all year. I choose to ride through the sometimes very nasty PA winters with a single speed equipped with disc brakes, and a set of metal studded tires. It's a pretty bullet proof set-up. I have a Salsa Las Cruces cyclocross bike set up with disc brakes and a rear rack for the rest of the year. This has GREATLY reduced the number of miles I put on my auto.

Here is a pic of the back of the seat tube on my Bianchi SISS:




Of course, there are MANY, MANY other benefits to riding your bike. The greatest benefit of all is that its so damn much fun, and never leaves me without a smile on my face. Can you say that about your commute?

... Brad

 

Where does the 10,000 figure come from? It's also not clear that somebody riding 30 miles in a day (kind of on the long side of commuting by bicycle) would be eating a "US average diet".

Cycling 30 miles per day is about 2 hours per day. It's almost certain that this activity is a substitute for some-part of other forms of excercise.

The following indicates that cycling 30 miles per day would increase your caloric intake by 44%.

Harris Benedict Equation

Straw man argument: who said it was "infinite"?

You mean this one?

Bicycling wastes gas? Yes, if your fuel is beef
"Congratulations on missing the point. The point is simply to show how incredibly energy intensive meat-based diets are, by using an interesting comparison. That's it."

But your "paraphrase" is incorrect. The OP said nothing like that:

The OP is saying that bicycling is an improvement over the efficiency of a Prius, the same way a Prius is an improvement over a 15mpg SUV.

He did't say that. Such a "paraphrase" is incorrect.

It seems you have the same problem you are accusing other people of having. Your entire position is based on "misreading" the OP!

Concider replacing all of the cars we currently have with horses. The amount of dung you'd have to smell, walk through, clean-up, and dispose of would be incredible! Note that horses as transportation would increase demand on agriculture. High density cities like NYC are much more pleasant to live in without all the horses!

 

Wow .... just wow. Please don't group all cyclists together.

... Brad

 

Sorry, but that's a massive simplification that is wrong. They're fat because they eat massive amounts of refined carbs. As a result, their insulin levels are so high that their bodies cannot metabolize fat. They feel tired all of the time and so are lethargic. They're fat because of a metabolic problem, not because they're overeating.

If you people would just read what chogan's writing instead of just reacting to it, you'd see that it's well conceived and balanced. There is no free lunch when it comes to energy. The real thrust of it is that it shows just how much energy you literally consume with the typical American diet (which is shite, BTW). Simply changing that can be just about as effective as changing your ride, more so, depending on the circumstances.

 

Nah, it's an argument against a statement nobody made.

Who is saying that?

The reference chogan used does make that point. chogan was not making the same point.

 

Yes, Americans eat WAY too much sugars - there is no question about that. However, the real issue is NOT the composition of the calories taken in - it's the AMOUNT of calories taken in.

If you don't believe me, just go to any restaurant in America. The servings are about twice the size needed.

It's TOO many calories in vs. too little calories out - pretty simple stuff. We also eat the wrong things, but that is a very minor issue relative to overeating.

... Brad

 

It depends on what you're argument. I agree, many eat too many calories per day. If your argument is that they're wasting energy you're right and I completely agree. If your argument is that too many calories are making people fat, your argument is not supported by the clinical evidence. Too many calories doesn't make one fat. Eating too many refined carbs does. But that's a different thread all together.

 

For short trips the bike offers bigger savings over a car. The prius is considerably less efficient while it warms up. So those short trips to the grocery will defo be more efficient. It really does depend on what you eat however. The important thing is you have a lot more control over what you eat. Petrol is petrol (more or less), but you have a choice about what you put in your own tank.

 

I was making that point based on the numbers he provided (and that we've discussed ad nauseum on this forum in the past).

 

I don't know how you could be any more wrong about basic calories.

Let's do an experiment. You eat 3,000 calories/day (and combo of fat/carb/protein you'd like) and burn let's say 2,000. I'll eat 1,500 calories of pure sugar every day while I burn the same 2,000 as you.

Given those numbers, I will lose about 1 pound of body fat/week, and you will gain about 2 pounds of body fat/week. There is simply NO way around it.

... Brad

 

don't me wrong. It's a brilliant idea and many people are putting it to use. Just makes sense. Scooter business is booming for similar reasons and most people will opt for that choice because they don't wanna be pushed as you say. It also allows them to do a "regular" commute, for the most part. At over 100mpg they're more efficient than a bicycle if you accept Chogan's arguments.

For people that want the exercise though, you're spot on. You can't beat it.

 

Get your extra bike fuel from un-refined carbs - as most atheletes do - and the discussion is over. I can't think of any bike-riders who get their extra fuel from beef. Or any meat for that matter. The best argument you made was about substituting bike transportation for driving to the gym.

I just can't bring myself to go over the other points. My head hurts.

 

The answer is obvious. And it will save us money! To infinitely increase everybody's safety, all we have to do is remove 4-wheeled vehicle from our roads.

 

I do have to add one more important point here. Just can't help myself.

A huge portion of automobile trips in the US are under five miles. FIVE miles of driving a gas car, per trip. Many people commute under five miles in their gas cars to work. Many people drive under five miles to buy groceries. Or go to the post office. yadda, yadda. Hundreds of millions of <5 mile car trips per day. Cold starts/short trips are the most polluting, lease efficient period of driving an ICE. Any idea how many extra calories I need to consume to ride five miles? Any idea how many of these extra calories come from beef?

 

I do find it odd the way most people look at "bicycle safety." Many point out that biking is dangerous because the biker can get hit by a car. It is the cars that hit the bikers that cause the danger... not the act of biking. Take all the bikes off the road, and people will still run their cars into each other and various things and kill people in great numbers. Take all the cars off the road and you may have some skinned knees and a fatality here and there. But NOTHING like having cars on the road.

And yes, I do digress. And I do it on purpose. The benefits of biking go WAY beyond the reduced pollution and energy consumption of eating all that extra beef.