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Prius AUX jack fried my MP3 player battery, DEAD!!!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by freshmtt, May 29, 2008.

  1. freshmtt

    freshmtt Dachshund Addict

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    I am so pissed off, not really with Toyota, I am kind of , but more so with Creative Labs.

    I realized today that the AUX jack for the MP3 player somehow killed my internal battery in my Creative Zen MP3 player. The player is almost brand new, less than 2yrs old and hardly ever used..

    I had been keeping it plugged into the MP3 jack for the past 3 weeks and only played it 2 times, the last time for 20 minutes and the battery was still fully charged when I finished using it.

    I tried to power it on a few days ago and it would not power on, it was dead,, so I thought I just left it on and the battery just needed to be re-charged. So I charged it up last night, plugged it in at 5pm and at 6am this morning unplugged it and it would not come on at all, it fully charges in 4 hours. It was plugged in for 13 hours, and it showed it was still charging but no progress had been made on it.

    I plugged it back in the charger and powered it on and it came on and works, but then I unplugged it from the charger and within 20 seconds it gave me the warning for low battery and then shut down...

    So, the battery is fried, and I know that the Prius did it, how, I'm not sure, but what really gets me mad is that Creative tells me they will not replace the battery or even fix it because it is out of warranty, I know this, I just want them to tell me how to get it fixed by someone else, and they won't tell me. Basically just telling me, they do not do repairs on products no longer under warranty, but won't tell me how to get it fixed.

    I can't imagine that they make a $250 product that just needs to be thrown in the garbage after the battery dies and the warranty runs out. This is insane!!!!, I am now waiting to speak to a supervisor. All I want to know is how to replace the internal battery and fix it. I don't want to buy a new one as it took me over 6 months to put 4,000 songs on it. My time is more important than money at this point.

    I looked on the web and only found one place in NC that fixes and replaces IPOD batteries, I put a call into them to see if they can replace a Creative Zen battery but still waiting to hear back from them.

    I wonder if Toyota is going to cover damage or if this will be out of pocket. How can we proove that the Prius did this??, I know it did,, that MP3 player was practically brand new and I always made sure I kept it fully charged. I hardly every played this thing...
     
  2. bbald123

    bbald123 Thermodynamics Law Enforcement

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    No, the Aux jack did not fry your player battery.

    It would be possible for a power surge through the Aux jack to fry your player amplifier circuits etcetera. It would also be possible for someone to leave the player on for long periods and totally flatten the battery.

    Much more likely is that temperature extremes in the car triggered thermal protections either in the battery or in the player.
     
  3. Wa1hog

    Wa1hog Old Blind Hippie

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    The AUX jack is an audio input. It would be like leaving your headphones plugged into the MP3 player overnight. No way it would kill the battery. As to the possibility of a power surge I doubt it. Again its a audio line going to the radio. There is no power on that line. If there was a power surge it would kill the audio output amplifier of the MP3 player and not the battery. I suspect that it was left on and killed the battery. It does happen.
     
  4. freshmtt

    freshmtt Dachshund Addict

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    Brian,
    Does this mean that everybody needs to remove their MP3 players from the car everytime they leave the car??, I'm just trying to figure out how temp extremes could have done this, it is Spring here and there have been no major temp extremes to where the car was extremely hot inside and have gotten cold etc..

    But if what your saying is that just by leaving the MP3 player in the car for a period of 3 weeks could have fried the battery. Then I want to know if all of you that have the MP3 jack also leave your player in the car, or if you remove your player from the car each time you leave the car parked. I had kept the player stored inside the console where the jack is.

    I know that something connected with the Prius damaged that battery. And it is definately NOT from the player being old. It is practically new and was hardly used. I always kept it charged up on the stereo deck in the house and only recently put it in the Prius after I bought the car.

    It sat in the center console for 3 weeks was used only 2 times and the battery was fully charged at the end of both times I played it, about 20 minutes each time. We have not had any extreme heat or cold here in Chicago since I bought the car, so what exactly would you consider extreme temp ranges for the inside of the car necessary to damage a MP3 or IPOD battery??

    I have another Phillips MP3 player, 8gb that I just got in December, now I am almost afraid to keep this one plugged into the jack in fear of what will happen. Should I remove the player whenever I exit the car and never let it sit inside the car when I am not in it?? This seems a bit extreme, but if I have to do this I will.

    Does everyone else remove their MP3 player/IPOD everytime they get out of their car and park it???
     
  5. Tammy7287

    Tammy7287 Junior Member

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    I have my satellite radio always plugged in and haven't had any problems.
     
  6. freshmtt

    freshmtt Dachshund Addict

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    So your telling me that simply leaving the MP3 player on and letting the battery drain down will destroy the battery? This does not make any sense?. What kind of technology is that, that a battery that is completely dead will just be destroyed and cannot be charged up simply because the player was left on and the battery drained down??

    I'm sorry if I am sounding stupid, but I have never heard of that before, our cell phone batteries die all the time because someone forgets to charge it up. The battery does not get destroyed because it was left uncharged, you just plug it in and charge it back up again.

    Isn't this the purpose of chargeable batteries,, when the battery gets drained out you plug it in and recharge it. If this was not the case, would there not be a warning on all devices like this warning you to not let the battery fully drain or you will destroy the battery??
     
  7. prius729

    prius729 New Member

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    Are Zen's batteries soldered on like ipods? You may be able to find one on ebay or something and fix it yourself.
     
  8. freshmtt

    freshmtt Dachshund Addict

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    They have replacable batteries on their website, but those are for the new models that have come out. My 20gb Zen Sleek Photo is an older model, even though I just bought it less than 2yrs ago, I bought it right as they stopped production. So when I called them they told me that those batteries are not compatible and my MP3 has an Internal battery.

    I did find a website called zenrepair.com that will fix it for you, I am going to send it to them to fix and get it done.

    I am just baffled by what happened and why... I can't see that just letting the battery get drained down will actually kill and destroy the battery. This does not make sense at all. After charging it for 13 hours last night, it did not get charged up at all,,, and only stays powered on if it is plugged into the charger. The second I removed it, it played for 20 seconds and warned me the battery was low and shut itself down..

    So the battery got fried somehow..
     
  9. San_Carlos_Jeff

    San_Carlos_Jeff Active Member

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    There's a big difference between "almost brand new" and "less than 2yrs old". It's quite possible that there is some sort of internal problem with the battery that has been there all along and finally killed it over time.
     
  10. Yak18

    Yak18 Junior Member

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    Pretty sure your MP3 battery was lithium ion. When a lithium ion battery goes below 3.0 volts it is in extreme danger of damaging itself. Your player should have a feature that shuts down the device prior to the cell going below 3.0 volts (most cell phones and other devices have this failsafe) but it is possible that that feature did not work this time. Since it's out of warranty, I don't think there is anything you can do besides a personal boycott on creative labs products. Very unlikely your Prius had anything to do with it failing.

    Another thing you said concerns me..."hardly ever used". Batteries need to be used (cycled) to stay fresh. It's possible that the battery went below 3.0 volts just sitting there on standby for a few months.
     
  11. freshmtt

    freshmtt Dachshund Addict

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    Hmm,, do you think it always being plugged into the charger in the house could have done this??, I never really kept it on, but I always kept it plugged into the charger but it was always off. I had it connected to the docking station all the time and it was always plugged in. But I really did not use it much, especially after I got another MP3 player in December.

    I found my receipt. I bought it in February 2007. So to me that is still pretty new and hardly ever used, but like you said, if not using it, could destroy the battery, that really sucks big time..

    I will have it fixed though, I found an independent company that can replace the battery since Creative will not do it for me. They just want me to buy a new one..

    I feel a bit better now thinking that the Prius did not kill my player.. Now I just want it fixed..
     
  12. PriusSport

    PriusSport senior member

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    Sounds like you are talking about the AUX jack that connects your player to the car speakers, not the 12V outlet which might be used to recharge? I have a couple of Creative mp3 players, and hesitate to use them now in my Prius. I have connected them to Creative external speakers (the small tabletop type) without any problem. The speakers come with a connecting cable. Perhaps the problem is the cable?
     
  13. freshmtt

    freshmtt Dachshund Addict

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    Yes, I am talking about the AUX jack, I bought the connector cable from Radio Shack when I bought my docking station. The Docking station I bought last year was for an IPOD, but you can just buy the AUX cable and work any MP3 player off it. I just took that AUX jack cable and now have it in my Prius. Actually the Docking station is an actual stereo, with the IPOD connection, CD player and AM/FM radio. My Creative has been plugged into that Stereo for a year with the charger cable always on charge and it plugged into the AUX jack on the stereo with no problems ever.
     
  14. Dawveed

    Dawveed New Member

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    I don't mean to gripe but...

    Since a two-year old device is that much obsolete to where they don't have replacement batterries, I would be upset at Creative Labs for not getting it right in the first place. I had a Dell player for one week and had the thing crash several times in that weeks time. I sent it back and got an I-pod. Though an I-pod might cost a little more, I have never had the thing lock up, crash, nor have a phantom battery problem. My next computer might be a mac for the same reasons. Just a thought.
     
  15. freshmtt

    freshmtt Dachshund Addict

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    Well, I found out, they do have replacement batteries but they will not replace them for you.. the battery is an internal battery and it must be sent in to someone to replace. I found a few places on the internet that do it. I did a search on yahoo for creative repair and found some sites..

    However, when I came home today I check my player again and low and behold it was all charged up and working just fine :eek::eek::eek:

    So, I don't know what the hell was wrong, after 13 hours it did not charge one bit, the flasher was working showing it was charging but it did not charge at all. I left it plugged in when I went to work today and when I came home tonight at 5pm, I checked it again, and IT WORKS!!!!

    So, I am extremely happy that it is NOT broken, and YEAH the Prius did not kill it, :bounce::bounce::bounce:

    That was my first though because it normally charges up fully in 4 hours, after 13 hours of not charging at all even though the indicator was showing it was charging made me believe the battery was toast!! But I have no idea what happened that all of a sudden it charged up fully today while I was at work.
     
  16. narf

    narf Active Member

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    Maybe you have an intermittent open circuit on your charger.
     
  17. freshmtt

    freshmtt Dachshund Addict

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    Ummm, excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is that??:(
     
  18. Speedwing

    Speedwing Junior Member

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    This is how it is supposed to work per wilkipedia! It all makes perfect sense based on what you have told us!!!! Yours was in deep discharge state.

    "A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its life span is dependent upon aging from time of manufacturing (shelf life) regardless of whether it was charged, and not just on the number of charge/discharge cycles. So an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This drawback is not widely published.[15]
    At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion laptop battery that is full most of the time at 25 degrees Celsius or 77 degrees Fahrenheit will irreversibly lose approximately 20% capacity per year. However, a battery stored inside a poorly ventilated laptop may be subject to a prolonged exposure to much higher temperatures than 25 °C, which will significantly shorten its life. The capacity loss begins from the time the battery was manufactured, and occurs even when the battery is unused. Different storage temperatures produce different loss results: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40% - 60% charge level, these figures are reduced to 2%, 4%, 15% at 0, 25 and 40 degrees Celsius respectively.
    Under certain temperature conditions, the batteries have a tendency to become damaged and can sometimes never fully recharge again. In certain situations where the temperature is too cold (below the recommended battery temperature) the battery will still hold its charge but cannot be recharged as a result of the cold temperature. This is most common in smaller batteries such as cellular phones and handheld devices.
    As batteries age, their internal resistance rises. This causes the voltage at the terminals to drop under load, reducing the maximum current that can be drawn from them. Eventually they reach a point at which the battery can no longer operate the equipment it is installed in for an adequate period.
    High drain applications such as powertools may require the battery to be able to supply a current of (15 h-1)C - 15/hour times "C" - the battery capacity in Ampere hours, whereas MP3 players may only require (0.1 h-1)C (discharging in 10 hours). With similar technology, the MP3 battery can tolerate a much higher internal resistance, so will have an effective life of many more cycles.[16]
    Li-ion batteries can even go into a state that is known as deep discharge. At this point, the battery may take a very long time to recharge. For example, a laptop battery that normally charges fully in 3 hours may take up to 42 hours to recharge. Or the deep discharge state may be so severe that the battery will never come back to life. Deep discharging only takes place when products with rechargeable batteries are left unused for extended periods of time (often 2 or more years) or when they are fully discharged so often that they can no longer hold a charge. This makes Li-ion batteries unsuitable for back-up applications where they may become completely discharged.
    A stand-alone Li-ion cell must never be discharged below a certain voltage to avoid irreversible damage. Therefore all Li-ion battery systems are equipped with a circuit that shuts down the system when the battery is discharged below the predefined threshold.[12] It should thus be impossible to "deep discharge" the battery in a properly designed system during normal use. This is also one of the reasons Li-ion cells are rarely sold as such to consumers, but only as finished batteries designed to fit a particular system.
    When the voltage monitoring circuit is built inside the battery (a so-called "smart" battery) rather than the equipment, it continuously draws a small current from the battery even when the battery is not in use; furthermore, the battery must not be stored fully discharged for prolonged periods of time, to avoid damage due to deep discharge." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
     
  19. racerbob

    racerbob Member

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  20. audiophile

    audiophile New Member

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    There is a warning label on nearly every piece of electronic equipment that states you should not leave it exposed to heat (eg, sunlight, in a hot car) for long periods of time.

    Leaving your mp3 player in a hot locked car for three weeks can in fact fry it. The audio jack will not. I'm wondering though how you can leave a device in your car for three weeks without charging it. If you're charging it in a hot car through the car outlet, you definitely fried it on your own.

    Just remember your device is made of metal and plastic: two things that do not mix well with heat.