Chevy Volt news, again

IF less than 40 miles is the average, why is GM going through all the trouble adding an a gas engine? With all the do questions of do I run the generator to charge the battery or wait to get home? or Charge it a little then go home. And all kind of charge no charge questions Why not just make an electric car and add the engine option later?

 

I think the 100 MPG claim is the gas-only consumption based on typical commuter patterns. At least, when CalCars claims 100 mpg on their PHEV Prius, that's what they're actually claiming. But the Volt, in theory, ought to do better than the current generation (retrofit) PHEV Prius, so maybe the 100 MPG includes the cost of the electricity as well.

If it did, then, at $4/gallon, you could justify a $7K premium for a Volt over a Prius based solely on fuel cost savings over the life of the vehicle (150K miles at 100mpg versus 46mpg). If your travel was such that you could operate the Volt strictly as an EV, then the lifetime fuel savings would be about $10,000, based on the claimed KWH/mile.

My point is that a Volt at $30K costs about the same as a Prius at $23K, for the life of the car, based on the 100 mpg claim. Roughly speaking, it's only the amount in excess of $30K that represents a premium over the price of a Prius.

 

Pricing will be everything with the Volt. They will have to be price competitive with the Prius. GM has a big distribution advantage over the foreign makes in the U.S. They have dealerships in small towns in every corner of the country. So does Ford. They just need the right vehicles in those dealerships. But they will never sell electric cars unless they are price competitive with Toyota--the main competition.

 

When you are 2nd into the market with a new product, you have to be cheaper at the same performance or better at the same price than the market leader. That is marketing 101.

 

LOL.... you should have watched the broadcast.... the actual wording was "40 to 80 cents depending on whether you are charging during peak rates or not"

at roughly just over 3 miles per kwh... 40 mile range, that would be around 13 kwh...

now that rate is about what i pay (the 80 cents that is, not the 40) and there are few areas around the country that pay as little as i do and i be willing to bet there is nowhere that pays significantly less than what i do.

 

I understood the 100 MPG claim comes from assuming that the battery would satisfy most of the car's driving requirements but the small ICE would be required for any trips beyond the 40 mile battery range. I think GM made an assumption about typical mileage in a day. I also think that GM uses the first 40 miles on battery in the 100 MPG estimate.

 

not in a volt... there is about a 40 mile range in the battery and its 100% battery-driven. after its down to a 30% (i think) charge, a gas driven on board generator cranks on to recharge the batteries.

 

Yes, but the ICE is still recquired to drive those extra miles and they can make an estimate on the gas recquired to get those extra miles in. I think it is a bit misleading, but that's how I understood it from recent GM advertisements.

 

Well, I think GM is being incredibly dense about a many aspects of this proposed PHEV. Only one of which is the decision to price it as a super-premium product.

My main gripe is their decision to make a car with such limited functionality. It's based on the Cobalt. That's a subcompact car with the same interior volume as a Yaris, not a Prius. IMHO you can't fit adults into the back seat of a Cobalt. And it's not even a hatchback, so you can't carry large items. So there's no seating for four adults and no cargo capacity. They can bill it as a sporty car and load it with trim, but from the standpoint of usefulness, I think they goofed. It'll work as a one-or-two passenger commuter car, but that's about it.

 

well yes but i think was Jack was asking is whether the engine drives the car which it does not directly. while the engine is recharging the batteries, its estimated that you will get around 40 mpg...obviously losses for conversions play into this...

personally i think that an engine whose sole purpose is to generate electricity and nothing else can be made to be much more efficient so i anticipate someone taking gm's configuration and doing a much better job.

when looking at the engine's efficiency verses power output and input, a gallon of gas calorie wise will move the typical EV around 145 miles (taken from Zenn literature) so to drop to 40 mpg there is a lot of conversion losses going here or the motor is not really much more efficient than a typical car engine which i find difficult to believe. a car engine has to perform a lot of different functions so it has to be a type of "jack of all trades" so things like transmissions, etc all take efficiency down.

but the volt has whats essentially a little gas generator just like any typical portable generator and it seems to me that the better Honda generators are like in the range of 60% efficient??... maybe way off on that and im sure weight plays a part as well, but... i dont know...

just seems like it can be better than what they say it will do and there is NO DOUBT in my mind that they are overstating the figures a bit... but this is the first (maybe) so its a step that im sure will be improved upon when it hits the wild and modifications start popping up.

 

if they are 2nd, who is first??

sure aint the Prius, its not even close to the same thing

 

CalCars is legitimate. I have seen one of their converted Priuses. But CalCars is not a company and does not sell conversions. Cal Cars is some sort of collective research and design project. I believe there are several companies that have taken CalCars' work and commercialized it. Basically, for something like $15,000 (???) you can make your Prius go about 60 miles using half gas and half grid electric energy. The limitations of the Prius itself mean that you cannot use it as an EV, because the Prius will not accelerate at an acceptable rate or drive faster than 42 mph without running the engine. Even for slow driving, any uphill or any acceleration faster than a snail's pace will cause the gas engine to kick in. My Zap Xebra accelerates faster than my Prius will do in EV mode. The CalCars design will let you get half your energy from the grid for the first 60 miles, and that is a great idea. But I'd rather drive my Xebra for those short trips, and keep my Prius as it is for the longer ones. A Xebra is cheaper than the cost of converting a Prius.