37mpg City?

Rest, whatever car you drove before wasn't getting its EPA numbers either. Nobody gets the EPA numbers for any car except for a few hypermiler fanatics. Every car maker must in the US advertise the EPA numbers and no others. If this is gonna continue to bug the sh!t out of you, sell it, and let us know what you replace it with. Otherwise give it a rest.

 

Two Saturdays ago, I was running errands. I filled the Prius, and reset the running average gauge, to see what I would get now that warmer weather has returned.

In the first ten miles of running errands, consisting of a series of stops around town, I had 62 mpg showing. One key was that I started with a fully warmed up engine.

Harry

 

Toyota can only legally advertise EPA numbers. I get and exceed EPA numbers all the time.

That is simply not accurate enough. Give us the ACTUAL ROUTE. If you are worried about privacy, fudge the start/end locations a bit.

Let me put it this way: Definitions of "City" driving are like the things on your behind - everyone has one. Since you are quite certain that your car is functioning as designed, then your definition of "City" driving obviously is not close to what what the EPA had in mind for the old or new mileage test.

Again, legally, Toyota can NOT advertise any other numbers but the EPA numbers.

The reason you are not meeting EPA mileage numbers (assuming that your car is indeed fine - I would expect that a weak traction battery would under-perform in hilly situations but perform fine on the highway) is that your route is simply not conducive to fuel economy:

Things that kill fuel economy:

Stop and go with little to no coasting in between (IE, going from stop sign to stop sign or light to light). During this type of driving you will spend half your time accelerating at 10-20 mpg and the other half coasting to a stop. Your average mileage will be 20-40 mpg.

Steep rolling hills. Like the stop sign to stop sign driving, you will be doing 10-20 mpg up and coasting down. Your average mileage will be 20-40 mpg.

Short freeway stints. Again, you'll accelerate at 10-20 mpg up to freeway speed, perhaps cruise a mile at 50mpg and then coast to a stop. Your average mileage will be 35-45 mpg.

You've got all three things going against you.

 

Well that is that then.

 

I don't know why the OP is so reluctant to give specific detailed information about how he/she drives, the route to/from work, and some other factors that people are asking. How can Toyota be advertising false EPA numbers if I'm achieving this...



...with a 2-week old Prius. Btw, that's 73.5mpg(US) equivalent, and my commute is 35km one way (21mi. US) 100% city, light traffic in the morning / moderate-heavy traffic at night. This sounds pretty much on par with your commute. And in case you're wondering how hilly my route is:



Not exactly flat, is it? And btw, my old Honda Fit couldn't touch its EPA numbers even when I was driving it slow. Sounds to me you're not really taking people's advice too seriously around here. Because if you did, you'd at least be in the 40s.

 

I'm so sorry to hear about your bad luck with your Prius. Obviously it is defective. What would you take for it?

How much remains on your car loan? I'll be happy to cover it and something to help you get your next car. Diesels are very popular cars, we can do a deal. Send me a PM with your price.

Bob Wilson

 

Nice! What's your average speed? How many stops? I've only managed that kind of mileage going downhill or when stuck in slow traffic where speeds average 20mph.

How'd you generate that elevation plot?

 

Start by going to How Vehicles Are Tested. CLick on the "Detailed Test Information" Then at say 3:00 AM, go to an area where the roads are flat, no lights and the temperature is ~70F and drive the exact same profile.

Remember that to get EPA City mileage you have to drive in EPA City.

Bob Wilson

ps. How much do you want for your used, crappy Prius?

 

Rest, since you still won't give us the actual route, how about some screenshots from your MFD at the end of your commute. One for the trip out, another from the trip back.

 

Hey drees,

The elevation plot is courtesy of TopoRoute I have to give credit to mr.bill of CleanMPG for finding the site. It's not 100% accurate apparently, but it will give you a rough idea of how hilly your route is.

As for the number of stops, I've lost count past 40 stoplights one way. I'm still trying to get used to the terrain first before getting to know how many stoplights there are and how they behave. I'd say my avg. speed would be about 35kmh since it takes me close to an hour to get to work...all dependent on how many reds I come across.

 

Let's dissect your argument and try to get to the root cause of it all.

Despite the knowledge that...

1) Toyota can't advertise any numbers on fuel mileage other than the official EPA numbers.

2) The EPA numbers, although mildly inaccurate, especially in city driving are useful in a relative way since all car manufacturers are bound by these numbers.

...you seem to feel that Toyota went out of their way to advertise the lofty City EPA numbers to increase sales in a "customer be damned" manner. That is naive, and you would do well to put your emotions aside and try to look at it analytically.

Your disappointment in your City EPA seems to have suppressed any acknowledgement that Toyota must have had a doozy of a PR problem on their hands. How do you explain to a bunch of eager customers that the car won't get the EPA 61 mpg like it says on the sticker? Legally, they can't. They can't even "wink and nod" about it. They are stuck.

Despite all this, you still feel like Toyota has misrepresented the car to you.

I think most people assumed that when you posted here, you were looking for advice on how to improve your fuel efficiency or in troubleshooting potential problems with your car. I fell into this category.

After reading 10 pages of this thread, I have come to the conclusion that you posted to rant. This is supported by your posts that range from being curt to stubbornly flabbergasted. You've made up your mind, there is nothing anyone (especially myself) can say to change your mind. You are right, everyone else is wrong.

Fine.

I hope your car is OK. I will be curious to see if/when you take it to the shop if they find something wrong with it.

Good luck.

By the way, the 2001 Honda Insight had an estimated 61 mpg City and 68 mpg highway. You have said in multiple posts that you exceeded the EPA estimates for the Insight. Did you used to get better than 61 mpg on this same route?

 

Yes, all three would be great.

 

FWIW, here is the elevation chart of one city route with a splash of highway I often take where I only average about 40mpg. I'm not complaining, I'm quite happy as I'm sure my other car would average half that on the same route. Mileage after 4 miles is in low 30s - a real killer is that there are multiple stops on the first big climb, and a near stop at the bottom of the first big hill at mile 2. The next climb is a quick climb up to a freeway (65mph) before getting back onto surface streets for another climb.

The downhill-uphill between miles 4-5 is not bad as you are able to coast halfway back up the hill on the otherside and the rest of the way is typical city streets so as long as you avoid jackrabbit starts and anticipate stops you can improve mileage the rest of the way.