Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

I heard this from someone high up at Toyota.

And this is done to alleviate errors by mechanics, not to get people out of there as quickly as possible. Toyota believes its computers are better at troubleshooting than people are.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gippah @ Oct 4 2007, 01:25 AM) [snapback]520631[/snapback]</div>

Unless they have improved a great deal in the last 7 years computers are crap at trouble shooting. IE a O2 sensor out of range doesn't normally mean a problem with the O2 sensor but more likely with another system like fuel or induction.
Why not trust the mechanic at the Toyota dealer? You trust the guys in a factory 10,000 miles away to build the car and most of them have no trade training like the tech at the Toyota dealer. Have some faith.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BuddyL @ Oct 3 2007, 09:54 AM) [snapback]520588[/snapback]</div>

I covered this in post #85 of this thread: the API internal memo on API/GF "standards."

Even the current North American spec allows a motor oil to thicken almost 200% in service and "pass." There is no requirement to prevent cold sluged rings, in-service cold viscosity thickening (Sometimes on the order of 500% !!), crown land or ring land deposits, etc.

Oils that meet the ACEA spec are tested to far more rigid standards, including test regimes *three* times the duration of the North American API spec. One obvious difference is that the API is in the contradictory position of promoting the industry, eg the qwikie lube shops, and also in the position of setting "standards."

Until I see decent used oil analysis results, I'll stick with my current practice

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Oct 3 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]520617[/snapback]</div>

Galaxee - do you and DH want to move to Vermont?? More like Wisconson than NC!! I have just gone through the most horrid bout with the local dealer (though it had nothing to do with the Prius Tech who likely didn't touch the car) which I will detail in the next post with a question

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Oct 3 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]520617[/snapback]</div>

That is a widespread problem that really needs fixing. I go out of my way to pay extra money for a good doctor that wants me healthy. (They are very hard to find. Most doctors want to find things to prescribe vs. finding ways to avoid needing drugs. )

Unfortunately, This option does not exist in the auto repair business yet. There is no easy way for me to pay extra money for the best technician. But I am willing since I know the payoff.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Dec 15 2006, 09:13 PM) [snapback]362677[/snapback]</div>

I find it's a lot cheaper to change my oil twice a year than change my car more than every 2 years.

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

I am not getting this. I am from the old school and pretty anal about oil changes every 3000 miles. I now have 2 Toyota's and the dealer gives us free oil changes every 5000 miles. I have not needed one yet on the Prius. It is a hard transition to go 5000 miles in between changes. But now you guys are talking 15000 miles? Why would you want to push it? I take it you are speaking of synthetic, but is it worth it?

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

I think that with today's oils, 3K is a waste of oil to change that often. Also, I think 5K in a Prius may be a tad too soon. On my normal commute and on many of my errands, my ICE only runs around 40-50% of the time. The coolant does usually reach 190F so there shouldn't be problems with moisture in the oil. I wouldn't be surprised if even a conventional oil would still be usable after 10K. For the record, I use synthetic and change every 10K.

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

It depends on what you are after. I want 15000 miles but I do not want to push anything, hence the high ACEA spec oil and oil monitoring. Others want to aviod warranty worries, hence the changes at 5000. The 3000 mile changes were for an earlier era of engines.

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

Did another oil change - Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W/30 and a Pure One PL 20195 filter. At this point, I had 10,304 miles on the oil, so it appears that we can do 10k changes.

I especially like the insoluables being at 0.2% - compared to the limit of 0.6% that's quite small. Blackstone's comments were: "Insolubles were 0.2%, indicating good oil filtration." I think that's due to the oversized filter that I'm using.

I had the TBN test done too - TBN = 2.0, so there's still some oomph left in the oil.

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

i came across this thread and thought i would add my 2 cents. mobil 1 has a synthetic oil out that says good for 15k miles. just change the filter and top off. i dont see why that wouldnt suffice for warranty purposes. as a PS, when mobil 1 first came out soooooooooooo many years ago, the label said it was good for 25k miles. i know i am remembering right because my husband (who is in aviation) said that he started using it when it came out too and that type of oil had been used in aircraft for many years and he was glad they finally started selling it for cars.

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

Good results

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

Awesome analysis results! I typically have my oil analyzed at Blackstone as well and I'm planning on going 8K on this change. I also run Mobil 1. Your results are encouraging enough that I might go for 10K.

Should I ever have a warranty claim for my engine, my analysis results will be my ammo if Toyota gripes about me not following the maintenance interval.

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

I'm doing two oil changes per year whether it needs it or not:

• Spring change - uses OEM grade, synthetic and fresh filter. I also do the ICE air filter, rotate tires and check alignment. I put in new windshield wiper inserts.
• Fall change - use OEM winter grade (what our friends in Alaska and Canada use), synthetic and fresh filter, rotate tires and check alignment. Every other year, change the transaxle oil and clean the throttle plate.

In the fall, I optimize for cold weather performance so new oil goes in with grades optimized for cold starts and long warm-ups. After 50k miles transaxle oil appears to have higher rolling drag in cold weather so it gets changed every other year.

In the spring after the "yellow season" ends, I want to remove combustion by-products from the oil. I replace the engine and cabin filter and thus toss out the pollen, dust and debris that accumulates over the year.

At ~$50/tire, the $400 inventory on the road needs to roll until the rubber wears off. Rotating front/rear twice a year ensures even wear and checking and fixing the alignment minimizes the edge wear. I top off the tires with air every two months whether they need it or not. In my driving conditions, I run max side wall pressure thanks to excellent streets and modest speeds.

I haven't figured out what to do about the brakes but I'm thinking along the lines of new struts, wheel bearings and possibly steering bushings (if there are any.) A one time expense, when done, the car handling and ride should be good for another 120-150k miles. I may refurbish the traction battery too.

Bob Wilson

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

I'm having very good results with Mobil 1 0W-20. With the driving I currently do, 16,000 km works out to about 12 months. So every fall I change the oil and filter.

A couple of weeks ago I borrowed the fiber optic inspection scope from the office, and poked around the valvetrain of my Prius. It's absolutely squeaky clean, as most quality synthetic oils have very high detergent levels

Obviously I can't see the ring land, crown land, skirt area of the pistons without a major disassembly. I can infer from used oil analysis - and the scope results from the top end - that there are minimal deposits in those areas

Not sure why you would have to do anything with the struts unless they fail the "bounce" test or have visible leakage. I used to have a 1990 Toyota 4Runner, and they had fairly low quality rear coils and front torsion bars. A lot of 4Runners from that vintage sag in the rear as a result

In '93 I put in Downey variable rate rear coils and Downey front torsion bars. That leveled out the vehicle and resulted in a *huge* improvement in ride quality

The Prius wheel bearings are sealed. Unless the play exceeds tolerance, or you have noise (Rumble, grinding, etc) just keep using them. Not really any opportunity to "repack" a modern wheel bearing. Old fashioned wheel bearings didn't last very long because they weren't repacked often enough

With the '84 Ford at my hobby farm, I repack the front wheel bearings and spindle needle bearings every fall. That's more to keep the spindle bearings nicely greased, and since the hub has to come off anyway, I repack the two hub bearings. I use a professional style bearing packer

As far as suspension bushings. Again they have zero opportunity for lubrication. The aforementioned and missed 4Runner I put on Downey tubular a-arms in the front, and upgraded control arms for the rear axle. They had zerks - or grease tits as Hobbit would call them - so I gave them a shot of grease every 2-3 months

Regular rubber suspension bushings plan on replacing them after 10-15 years, much earlier if you drive on bumpy roads. If you let them go they will disintegrate and you will have metal on metal, which is very obvious.

You can check the suspension bushings for wear by using a crowbar and gently applying pressure to the pivot point. If it's very easy to bottom out the pivot point, especialy if it doesn't spring back, time to put in a new bushing. You typically have to use a press to push out the old bushing and press in a new bushing

The aforementioned Ford at my hobby farm, I've replaced the front bushings twice now, the rear spring/shackle bushings once. With the Ford, the I-beam pivot bushings are best pressed out/in, and control arm bushings are just removed. The only way to properly align a Ford truck front end of that vintage is to ensure the front coil springs and bushings are ok, otherwise the camber is impossible to keep set

For the steering, you're looking at the tie rod ends. If they have visible slop, replace them. Like +99% of all vehicles out there, the Prius has no zerks on the steering. If they tie rod ends are tight, leave them alone

It should be obvious that the roads you drive on have an influence on how long bushings and struts last. Around here, if a strut lasts 5-6 years, you're doing very good.

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

Kragen is a discount auto parts retailer in California. Today's LA Times has their advertisement offering a case of Valvoline Synpower Synthetic motor oil for a net price of $0.99 per quart after mail-in rebate of $3 per quart. I've been using Castrol GTX all this time, but if the price of synthetic is the same as mineral oil (net of rebates) then I am happy to switch...

Any concerns about this particular brand of synthetic oil??

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

I forgot how to search at 'bobistheoilguy', but the 2 synpower UOAs that I found there with a google search would not dissuade me from using the stuff. That is, if I did not have any M1 or Pennzoil platinum laying around.

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

I have been using Mobil 1 5W30 and Mobil 1 filters since my first oil change. I change the oil every 7,500 miles. The way I look at it, due to the hybrid design, the ICE runs on average about 60% of the time, so even though you are putting 7,500 miles on the car, you aren't really putting that on the ICE.

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

Sounds like a great deal! I say, go for it.

 

Re: Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

I'd prefer Pennzoil Platinum, Mobil 1, or Liquimoly as far as store bought goes. Or, Look into extended OCIs and go with Amsoil-

AMSOIL - Synthetic Oil, Synthetic Motor oil, Synthetic Engine Oil, Air Filters, Oil Filters and Synthetic Greases