The Volt: GM is, slowly but surely, screwing it up...

Discussion in 'Chevrolet Volt' started by efusco, Apr 18, 2008.

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  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    First word started leaking that the price of the Volt may well approach $40,000.

    Then they announced that instead of 11 gallon fuel tanks and approximate EV + gas range of 630 miles (a nice marketing point at least) that it'll now have a 6-7 gallon tank and 400 mile EV + Gas range.

    And now the straw that'll break even my back...it'll only be a 4 seater b/c of the design of the battery.
    The Volt will be a four-seat sedan. Most sedans these days squeeze in at least nominal space for a fifth passenger but to do that while allowing room for a battery pack running along the center of the floor would have required more headroom. That would have meant raising the roof a little which would have hurt fuel economy.

    The first two points were disappointments, but not deal breakers. The last, for me, clearly is. I have to have room for my entire family of 5...if I can't fit them in there I'm better off with the Autera EV or something like that as a daily commuter. Looks like I'll be holding out for a decent EV range on the Prius III PHEV. I can't tell you how disappointed I am by this turn of events. It seems that GM's completely forgotten that they need a broad market to attract enough people to make this a success.
     
    #1 efusco, Apr 18, 2008
  2. Austin50mpg

    Austin50mpg Prius Driving Right Winger

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    Leave it to GM. The Volt will probably look like an angry kitchen appliance also. I used to love GM and put several hundred thousand miles in the driver seat of a few GM products. Now I would rather my VIN number start with a J. Who would of thought of such a thing 30 years ago.
     
    #2 Austin50mpg, Apr 18, 2008
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    interesting.... so they're planning to use the "transmission" tunnel to hold the batteries? Not under the rear seats or in the trunk?
     
    #3 Tideland Prius, Apr 18, 2008
  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Oh come on Evan, don't give up yet ... I'll bet the bank they'll make a few more "changes" before Mama bird Lutz kicks the chick out of the nest :D
     
    #4 hill, Apr 18, 2008
  5. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Nope. The pack will have the same T shape as EV1's. The pack is supposed to weight around 400 lbs. Imagine putting that in the trunk and under the rear seat. Yea, I know!

    The lack of practicality prevented Insight from being a success. I thought that lesson was learned already.
     
    #5 usbseawolf2000, Apr 18, 2008
  6. micheal

    micheal I feel pretty, oh so pretty.

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    I hate to say I told you so, so I won't do it. It is unfortunate that the vehicle that we hope to buy no one is making (yet). For me it is a hybrid minivan or Mazda 5/MPV size vehicle (dangit it Toyota bring over the Estima!). I'm not as anxious for an EV yet, since we currently rent and would have a hard time plugging in at night, but it sure seems like we are going to have wait awhile.
     
    #6 micheal, Apr 18, 2008
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I don't agree there. The Insight was (is) a functional 2-seater. But so much aluminum kept it from being a financial success for Honda.
     
    #7 tochatihu, Apr 19, 2008
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    400lbs?!?! God... and the Prius is 99lbs? <sigh> GM... That's why you never criticize people in life if you don't know what you're talking about.

    "Oh the Prius is too complicated, the Malibu is simple" --> We have made a hybrid which as four clutches :confused:

    "Hybrids haul around unnecessary weight which is useless on the highway. Their battery packs are heavy" --> We have a Volt with a 400lb battery :confused: x2

    I agree with him. It's the cost of the aluminium monocoque that drove up the cost of the Insight.
     
    #8 Tideland Prius, Apr 19, 2008
  9. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    It was not like Honda couldn't meet the demand and Insight was selling like hot cakes.

    The demand was not there because it was a 2-seater and not practical for mass market.

    Insight was designed for a small market with exotic material that was not mass market ready (cost restriction). The same can be said to Volt too.... aluminum frame was for Insight as the Lithium battery pack for Volt. I can see a lot parallels.
     
    #9 usbseawolf2000, Apr 19, 2008
  10. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    #10 DeadPhish, Apr 19, 2008
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Considering it's only 4X larger than the Prius battery but will offer a 40 mile (or 32 depending on what you wish to believe) range using about 50% of it's total capacity I don't consider it 'huge'.
    I do wish they'd have gone for an under-floor design to better accomodate a 5-seat design Something taller in the back (trunk/behind rear seat) and shorter in front (under rear seat).

    I'm sincerely disappointed here...:(
     
    #11 efusco, Apr 19, 2008
  12. Rakimb17

    Rakimb17 Junior Member

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    The Volt is a joke.If the General wanted to produce an EV, the Volt would have been badged as EV2. It should not take two years for them to "design" something they already have blueprints and patents for. Not to mention the fact that it won't have the range of EV1. The Volt is a gimmick. I'm saving up for the Zap-X. If its half as nice as advertised, i'm getting one.
     
    #12 Rakimb17, Apr 23, 2008
  13. Chrome

    Chrome New Member

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    This isn't news, you guys. For people who get so uppity when people have Prius-ignorance, you sure are ignorant to the Volt. We've known about the 4-seater thing since last year at least.

    Yes, 400lbs. The Prius' batteries aren't required to do what the Volt's have to do. The Volt is an electric car. The Prius is a gas car with a supplemental battery/electric motor. It's absurd of you to compare battery weights between these two vehicles.
     
    #13 Chrome, Apr 24, 2008
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The engineers' requirement to periodically run the engine certainly contradicts that claim.

    Denial isn't helping your argument.

    It's a "series hybrid".

    .
     
    #14 john1701a, Apr 24, 2008
  15. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    You wanna dredge up the press release where this was announced?
    I've been watching the Volt progress pretty darn closely. I'm subscribed to 3 different Volt web sites plus watch the stuff posted on the various Prius sites and I'm a member of a GM sponsored research site where various customer preference questions clearly geared toward the Volt come up on a regular basis and at none of those places did I see a single announcement clearly stating that the decision to go with the 4 seat arrangement over the 5 was announced until just this past month.

    There may have been a comment somewhere that I missed, but to snidely say that 'we've known' for a year is disengenuous as there have been no clear specs released or stated for a while. That said I knew the battery design would, likely, be an impediment to a 5 seat configuration, but was hopeful they'd find a way to do it anyway.

    And, whether 'we all knew' or not doesn't change the fact that it's an engineering compromise that will have a negative impact on sales.
     
    #15 efusco, Apr 24, 2008
  16. Chrome

    Chrome New Member

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    Press release? Was the original poster's information also from a Press Release? What year are you living in? Here in the age of the internets, information is released a bit more casually sometimes.

    And you spelled disingenuous wrong.
     
    #16 Chrome, Apr 24, 2008
  17. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I'll take such snide unresponsive comments as an admission that absolutely can not produce any evidence that there was anything officially stating that the Volt would have only 4 seats a year ago. If you can, do it.
     
    #17 efusco, Apr 24, 2008
  18. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Just ask a question about the heater.

    What's more efficient... cranking out heat using only electricity or taking advantage of waste heat from a running engine?

    The story about Volt continues to change as details get addressed. The ideal fades as each step forward is taken. And based on what they originally promoted, enthusiasts are becoming disenchanted along the way.

    .
     
    #18 john1701a, Apr 24, 2008
  19. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I have been asking that question since Volt concept was announced. After more than a year, they came back with the answer "range will be reduced". Duh!

    The concept just doesn't make sense. In order keep the ICE stay off, they will have to increase the expensive battery size and that will cost extra a couple of thousand dollar just to keep the cabin warm (and keep the same range). Yea, keep the ICE turned off and carry that dead weight.

    The reason they have to keep the ICE off is to call it as an electric car with a range extender. If ICE helps out during acceleration or heating, it will become a series hybrid. Whatever.... During the extended range mode, Volt will be a series hybrid anyway since both engines will be in use.
     
    #19 usbseawolf2000, Apr 24, 2008
  20. M. Oiseau

    M. Oiseau 6sigma this

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    Provide four pairs of battery powered hunting socks and eight pocket warmers with each vehicle as a special cabin warming package.
     
    #20 M. Oiseau, Apr 24, 2008
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