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Red Triangle of Death (or A very expensive piece of lint)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by TheAnnoyingOne, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. TheAnnoyingOne

    TheAnnoyingOne New Member

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    On my way back from Riverside (60 westbound a bit before the 15) the car lost traction, red triangle & check engine lights on; luckily the electric motor worked and, with blinkers on, I was able to cross a few lanes and stop at the right shoulder.
    Called :cell:AAA and a relatively dirty guy shows up, hooks up the car and drives to a nearby Toyota dealership but since it was a bit after 5 PM the service was closed. Towing continues to my trusted Wondries Toyota in Alhambra where, although past their closing time, they had someone waiting :) to (a)receive the car and (b)take me to the nearby Enterprise for a rental.
    When I went to pick up the car next day my service guy could not keep a straight face when I asked what was wrong and presented me with a plastic bag with a piece of lint (see attached).
    This was found on the Mass Airflow Sensor and was causing it to create false readings which resulted in an Engine No Start state (P0A0F, P3190, P3191) after the sensor was cleaned up all went back to normal. Since the problem did not involve a damaged part it could not be written as a warranty repair but the dealer only charged an inspection fee :tsk: and not the full labor involved (diagnostic, removal and re installation of sensor etc).

    Between the towing ($330), car rental ($35) and inspection fee ($90) this must be the most expensive piece of lint :mad:
     

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    #1 TheAnnoyingOne, Apr 3, 2008
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    lol... how'd a lint of that size get in there?
     
    #2 Tideland Prius, Apr 3, 2008
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    The half-full cup is that at least the guy knew what he was doing, didn't just say you needed a new MAF and ECU and battery pack or some crap like we've seen before. Finding that piece of lint, I bet, was not easy.
     
    #3 efusco, Apr 3, 2008
  4. dustyhuskie

    dustyhuskie Itchy Tomato

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    I don't understand how the mass flow sensor works, but did the service person offer any suggestions as to how it happened or how it could be avoided?
     
    #4 dustyhuskie, Apr 3, 2008
  5. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Better to have that lint stuck there then grinding away somewhere inside your engine.

    Tom
     
    #5 qbee42, Apr 3, 2008
  6. TheAnnoyingOne

    TheAnnoyingOne New Member

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    The scientific answer to "how it got there" would be "%$it happens";

    Tideland Prius: ???

    Efusco: Yes indeed !

    dustyhuskie: It is located in the air intake after the filter. It measures air volume and the measurement is used to calculate/control the gas mix. The VEPL (very expensive piece of lint) blocked the sensor's tip. The abnormal readings then were interpreted as serious enough to stop the ICE and not allow it to re-start until the error condition got cleared. As far as recommendations etc: see first line of this reply.

    qbee42: Since it is a piece of fabric it would not have done any damage,
    or make the car stall.
     
    #6 TheAnnoyingOne, Apr 3, 2008
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I'm wondering if someone changed your engine air filter, and in an attempt to be diligent, cleaned out the inside of the air filter housing with a shop rag. If so, maybe the rag left the lint.
     
    #7 Patrick Wong, Apr 3, 2008
  8. kocho

    kocho Member

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    And, therefore offer a way to recoup some of the costs involved in fixing this, provided you have receipts... Though some debree from the filter or filter packaging might as well be the culprit...
     
    #8 kocho, Apr 3, 2008
  9. n8kwx

    n8kwx Member

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    I'm a bit surprised that you got the "red triangle of death" (and the car stopped running).

    When I instealled the block heater on my Camry Hybrid, I forgot to plug the MAF sensor back in (the install is different than on a Prius). After a driving a block or so I got a check engine light, but the car still ran just fine.

    I knew immediately what the problem was so I drove about a half mile until I could find a lit parking lot (it was night). I popped the hood and plugged the MAF back in. I then used my ScanGauge to clear the check engine light.

    How would a piece of lint wonk out the MAF more than not having it plugged in?
     
    #9 n8kwx, Apr 4, 2008
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    costs?
    What costs?
    AAA requires membership, so why would they charge $330 for service that's usually free (for a few miles ... or over 100mile for the premium plan). Unless you got towed out to Barstow, it seems pricy.

    $35 & $90 meaning you've already (with a car appx 2yrs old) run out the warranty? And you chose no extended warranty plan? Either of those warranty periods gets you a free rental car.

    I'm so easily confused
     
    #10 hill, Apr 4, 2008
  11. tmanson

    tmanson Geetar-playin' Traveler

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    You paid $330 for AAA towing? What is the purpose of the AAA membership then?
     
    #11 tmanson, Apr 4, 2008
  12. TheAnnoyingOne

    TheAnnoyingOne New Member

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    -- Do not have the AAA premium - and the tow was 40 miles.
    -- The warranty kicks in when parts are involved (and need to be replaced)
    Diagnostic labor (without parts replacement) is not covered under any warranty
     
    #12 TheAnnoyingOne, Apr 5, 2008
  13. TheAnnoyingOne

    TheAnnoyingOne New Member

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    The standard AAA membership covers towing of up to 7 miles - over that it is up to the towing company (usually around $10/mile).
     
    #13 TheAnnoyingOne, Apr 5, 2008
  14. artistdr

    artistdr Junior Member

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    I do not understand from whom you are going to recoup the $$$. It is nor the result of carelessness or negligence by anyone, or so it seems. I would be asking Toyota how to avoid this if it ever happens again. THIS should not have been a serious disabling problem. But alas, SH.T happens. ;-)
    Alan Cady 08 red with leather.


     
    #14 artistdr, Apr 5, 2008
  15. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    don't know why it shut the engine down. probably related to way out of spec readings or so low that practically no fuel was being injected.

    the time DH went on a hour long (unpaid) quest to figure out a whole series of irrelevant and unrelated codes and found a piece of leaf in the MAF sensor he was really pissed off. that happened when someone changed the engine air filter.

    on my last car, the MAF was shot and it started maybe 1/3 of the time, died almost every time i ran it. was not willing to spend the $$$ to replace it when i had a new car coming in a couple weeks :p
     
    #15 galaxee, Apr 5, 2008
  16. TheAnnoyingOne

    TheAnnoyingOne New Member

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    Apparently the system got flooded with abnormal readings from the MAF sensor and the firmware chose to "play it safe" and shut down the ICE.

    Although the issue could not be linked to a warranty repair my service adviser charged the minimum possible without getting in trouble.

    Oh well - at 47K this is the first significant incident -
     
    #16 TheAnnoyingOne, Apr 5, 2008
  17. TheAnnoyingOne

    TheAnnoyingOne New Member

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    Since I was driving back from a computer related emergency service call, I charged the whole thing to my customer.
     
    #17 TheAnnoyingOne, Apr 5, 2008
  18. bredekamp

    bredekamp Member

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    I agree, at least you got someone who actually looked. Not some guy who just said replace this or replace that.
     
    #18 bredekamp, Apr 7, 2008
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