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Diesel in Unleaded in Abq NM

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by abq sfr, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Long term, sure. The soot from the diesel being improperly burned in a gas motor will coat the O2 sensors and catalytic converters
     
  2. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Jayman,
    I remember when used sump oil was used to suppress dust on dirt roads and around truck storage yards. It was also used mixed with white paint to permanently mark a boundary line for a football field (ours are oval) or mark out an athletics track.

    The cat con would clean itself pretty quick unless it had several tanks of diesel contaminated petrol.
     
  3. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Me too, which sadly proves we're a couple of old farts

    Unfortunately all that Petroleum Impacted soil is going to impact us for awhile yet. A lot of soils that have DRO (Diesel Range Organics) and GRO (Gasoline Range Organics) contamination will influence groundwater and wells.

    One option that is relatively inexpensive and has proven successful at present and abandoned military tank farms is to inject air into the soil. This allows naturally occuring bacteria to "eat" the DRO and GRO
     
  4. abq sfr

    abq sfr New Member

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    Jayman, you a geochemist? We have the ventilation at LUST (Leaking Undergound Storage Tank) sites, didn't know old road oiling could be a problem. But it figures it could get into the groundwater.
     
  5. alanh

    alanh Active Member

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    I think the saving bit is that the car either won't run or runs badly enough that you get it fixed right away. This prevents it from running on diesel very long, so you avoid long-term damage.

    There was a case a few years back here in Phoenix where jet fuel was delivered instead of unleaded.
     
  6. abq sfr

    abq sfr New Member

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    Jet fuel.... will it make your Prius go 0-120 in 3 seconds? Kidding, I think it's just kerosene.
    I was at the dealer yesterday having maintenance done on my 2000 Sienna (115,000 miles with no repairs) and the people in front of me at the cashier had the flush-the-fuel-system done, do not know what kind of car they had. I asked the cashier if they have had a lot of those, and she said they were totally slammed with the diesel problem. Probably in the thousands for all car makes. I lucked out for a change.
     
  7. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I'm a systems analyst with B.Sc in Computer Science, Chemical Engineering, and economics (Production and Ops Management). Lot's of experience with the petroleum industry.

    I contract for an engineering firm, we have PE certified engineers on staff with degrees in GeoChem, Civil Engineering, Geology, etc. Some of them have been to abandoned DEW sites in the Canadian and Alaska arctic, and the Alaskan Aleutians, to do remediation at former LR radar and White ALICE sites.

    They have also been to current bases, such as Thule and Elmendorf, to assist with remediation from decades of operations. One engineer has also been to the old Nike-Zeus site in North Dakota and some of the old SAGE sites, as they also required hundreds of thousands of diesel per year of operation

    A lot of those sites used a combination of DF-A AST and UST with capacities beyond 250,000 usg, in some cases +1 million usg! Naturally, leaks and spills happened.

    I don't for a second believe that there was a deliberate, intentional effort on the part of the USAF to contaminate large swathes of ground. The "best practices" from back then called for single wall AST/UST's

    DF-A - or the current replacement JP-8 - will tend to form sludges and slime even with the biocide additives. At one time it was "best practice" to simply drain the muck out and dump it on the ground. Later on, concrete slabs were used to allow the muck to be poured on and break down on their own

    I'm a bit fascinated by UST's as I find it hard to believe that for a long, long time, only single wall tanks were allowed. Given what we now know about soil conditions (Extremely alkaline or acidic are more common than folks realize, and tundra soils can release natural acids when they have seasonal melt) and even the influence of geomagnetically induced currents, well, what was allowed back then was pretty shocking to us.

    But, again, it was "best practice" for the day!

    At least HVE and air injection can assist in remediation of DRO and GRO contaminated soils at a far lower cost than actually digging everything up, possibly to a depth of 30-90 ft.
     
  8. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    The various blends of jet fuel have a lot in common with diesel and kerosene. For the civillian market, Jet A-1 is commonly used in turboprops and turbofans. It has a rated freezing point of around -47 C

    Remember the movie The Day After Tomorrow, when the 3 RAF helicopters crash due to the fuel freezing? One of the actors stated the fuel froze at some ungodly cold temp, like -125. Bull. It freezes at -47 C

    If you need lower freeze protection, an additive like Prist can be added

    The military has moved towards a "universal" fuel requirement, which really helps with logistics. Their JP-8 is now used in almost all branches, including diesel powered generators and trucks

    Personally, I'd be leery running JP-8 in a diesel powered truck. There is a question of lubricity for fuel injection components. However, the military fleet doesn't put on hundreds of thousands of miles a year, so that isn't a concern to them

    You can use jet fuel in a kerosene lamp, but I wouldn't recommend it. Jet fuel tends to have high sulfur content and the lamp will stink up a room. It's best to use a dedicated lamp fuel, which burns cleanly and brightly

    I think I already mentioned the case of my dad using a dual-fuel Winco generator at our old cabin, when I was a kid. The motor was designed to run on kerosene (Diesel, jet fuel, etc) after it was warmed up on gasoline

    In the case of a gasoline motor, there are a lot of myths and urban legends out there regarding fuels. A gasoline motor will run poorly/stall on any distillate like diesel, Jet-A1, or JP-8.

    Avgas or "100LL" will contain enough lead to almost immediately ruin the O2 sensors and catalytic converters. I did try a tank of 100LL in my old non-emission Ford truck once. No performance difference that I could detect