1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Bogus fees on top of invoice???

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by thebigtman, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. thebigtman

    thebigtman New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    6
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Hi all,

    I'm planning to be a proud new owner of a 2008 Prius Non Touring Package #4 in Magnetic Grey. I have a few questions about invoice price and some "suspect" fees the dealer is giving me. I live near San Antonio and most hybrids are selling for very close to MSRP (as far as I can tell).

    Sam's club buyer's program is probably the best deal around here right now due to the market. I've called the internet dept at almost every dealer around me and they're telling me that they're selling vehicles for MSRP. Some have said that they'd go to $500 under MSRP. Most have refused to deal for anything under MSRP!!!! :eek: I've never seen dealers refusing to deal on cars before.

    I have the Consumer Reports report from a friend who just ordered the report about 10 days ago. He was nice enough to give it to me for free. It give me a base price for a 1224 model at $20,695 and a dealer holdback of $450 for a basement price of $20,905.

    Here's what I was given by Red McCombs Toyota at their internet/fleet/Sam's Club dept.

    Invoice Price of $20,022
    Toyota Finance Charge of $680 (he says this is added by toyota to all cars that they buy)
    Base Vehicle Holdback of $449 (why is this a charge, isn't it a credit?)
    Finance Reserve Charge $224
    Package #4 $2,322
    CF Floor mats $126
    Destination is $715 (this includes a Gulf States charge of $55)

    He said that when they get the car from the port, it costs them $24,550. The Sam's Club policy is to add $700 over invoice (he said that he'd go $500 over invoice) and a $118 dealer prep fee. There is a $184 title fee that goes partly to the State of Texas for titling and registration/inspection as well.

    This brings my OTD price with tax (6.25%) to $26,927.

    Below is a part of the email he sent me regarding the fees, etc that are added by Toyota. Do these make sense to any of you? Are these fees legit?

    P=PORT INSTALLED EQUIPMENT *
    Carpet Mat Set
    Carpet Floor Mats
    Trunk Mat
    T.A.F. .00
    DLR-ADDED .00
    DELIV/PROC/HAND 715.00
    T.M.F. 680.00
    BASE-VEH-HB 449.00
    PIO-HB 12.00
    FINANCE RESERVE 224.00
    TAX .00
    .00
    TAL PRICE $ 24550.00
     
  2. rpiereck

    rpiereck Regenerator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    289
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Man, some [​IMG] fees here:


    I highly recommend you read the entire website at www.carbuyingtips.com, it's very good education BEFORE you buy a car. Their car buying tactics WORK.

    Read the 7 chapters on Car Buying 101, starting here: www.carbuyingtips.com/car1.htm. Chapter 5 on negotiating tips and dealer scams is highly recommended. I'd read the whole 7 Chapters before going back to the dealer if I were you.

    If you are short on time, read the basics: 5 Quick Steps to Buying a Car: www.carbuyingtips.com/buyingnewcar.htm

    Ask them to see the factory invoice, it should have the Toyota logo on top, not the dealership's. Some dealers will show it to you, some won't, it's worth a try.

    Good luck on your purchase, I'm educating myself ahead of my Prius purchase next month! Please let us know how it went!
     
  3. thebigtman

    thebigtman New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    6
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Thanks for the info. It was very enlightening.

    Is it possible that CR's data is out of date? CR says the invoice price is $20,695. The dealer I spoke with said it was lower at $20,022.

    The price I figured is
    1. Prius (1224) Non Touring Invoice $20,695 (I understand that there is still a dealer hold back of $450 not deducted from this price.)
    2. Destination Charge $660
    3. Gulf States Surcharge $55
    4. CF Floor mats $126
    5. HK Package #4 $2,322

    This comes out to $23,858

    Rpiereck said that the $680 Toyota Finance Charge is legit so add that to my previous tally and it comes to $24,538. The $12 charge I saw in the Port charges makes it the $24,550 price. This is starting to make more sense now assuming the Toyota Finance Charge is in fact, legit.

    Rpiereck, thanks for your lengthy reply. Is the Toyota Finance Charge of $680 different from the total Gulf states destination charges of $660 + $55???? I think your reply indicates that it is different. CarsDirect did not mention this additional charge...just the Gulf States surcharge along with the normal destination charge.

    I'll do some more searching on here to see if I can find the answer myself.

    Mucho gracias!!!

    Tim
     
  4. rwhoyle

    rwhoyle Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    227
    2
    0
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Tim,

    IMO, you are looking at bogus add-on fees. RUN, DON'T WALK AWAY FROM THAT DEALERSHIP. I would recommend you go to Edmonds.com and Cars.com, put in your ZIP code and price out the Prius and options you are wanting. That will give you a negotiating price to work toward.

    The only PRICING that is usually normal to a transaction are:

    Car MSRP (Your negotiated price below MSRP)
    Package Cost
    Any other Options you desire (Floor mats, mud flaps, etc.)
    Transporation Fee (Usually between $660 and $715, depending where you live)
    Color Adjustment (Can be up or down $, usually $0 to $30)
    Dealer Processing Fee (This was $199 on both 2008 Prius I have bought)

    I would recommend you get on the internet, email the Internet Sales Manager of 6 to 8 Toyota Dealerships, spec out the car, color, package and options you want and ask for quotations and delivery estimates. I have done this on both 2008 Package #6 Touring Models I have bought and saved BIG bucks. (One last September for $26,389 OTD and the other this month for $27,098 OTD)
     
  5. thebigtman

    thebigtman New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    6
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Thanks for the encouragement and support. I've tried all the websites you and others have mentioned. Basically no dealers in TX will take off the Toyota Finance Charge of $680. I've tried San Antonio, Austin and a few in Dallas. On the thread entitled, "what you paid for your Prius" someone posted a reply today from the Austin area. Her experience is typical of the pricing I'm seeing here.

    I'm interested to know what dealer you used to pick up your touring models with package 6. We have family in Tulsa so coming up there wouldn't be a bad deal for us.

    Thanks again,

    Tim
     
  6. rpiereck

    rpiereck Regenerator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    289
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    The finance charges are legit, but it is something that the dealer pays the bank for doing business. You do not pay them. That comes out of their profit. When the dealer wants a Prius Touring with package 6 on their showroom they do not pay Toyota the full price of the car, they pay their bank the finance charge and the bank pays the factory the full price. Finance charge is something between $180-250 per month, depending on bank. If a car sits on the showroom for 3 or four months that adds up, that's why factories and dealers start coming up with incentives after the car is there a while, it gets really expensive to have that car just sitting in a lot. That's why nowadays you see those gas guzzling trucks with $3500-$5000 incentives; they are rusting away on dealers lots while accumulating finance charges. You won't see that on Prius because they are selling as quickly as they get to the dealership. Again, do not pay the finance charge as an extra item on your invoice because that's their cost of doing business, it's bogus if you pay their bills for them. They are not paying your bills for you.

    I found that the best source for Invoice prices is Yahoo Auto, because they break it down by National, Gulf Coast and Southeast prices (which is how Toyota breaks it down). Yahoo Auto also includes the invoice prices for every single option, which I haven't found elsewhere. Gulf Coast prices are valid on Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma.

    Use this link to build your Prius through the Yahoo Auto website. You can choose Natl, GS and SE for each Prius model, and that will take you to the page with the invoice prices for the options: Yahoo! Autos -- Price Your New Car

    What I would do, if I were you, is go to the Capital One car buying site (Capital One Auto Buying | Homepage) build yourself a Prius like you want it, and at the end they will give you a no-bullshit, no haggle price. You can own a Prius by exactly what they quote you, usually $500 to $1800 below MSRP. Take that to the dealership and show it to them. Tell them they better match that quote or you take your business ($$$) elsewhere. They can choose to have the profit or not. If they say they aren't making any money on a quote like that then remind them of the holdback (they get that from the factory after the sales are done), and that the invoice you are showing includes a fair amount of profit, maybe 5%, which any salesman will tell you is good profit. If they don't budge happily walk out and buy the car through Capital One. They stand to lose, not you. Again, good luck!
     
  7. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    7,663
    1,041
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Whatever they call all those fees, the only thing that matters is the total amount you have to hand over. Get the same statement from multiple dealers and compare the bottom lines, and never mind how each of them gets there.

    I wouldn't hope for much discounting. The dealers see gas prices rising same as we all do.
     
  8. priusenvy

    priusenvy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    1,765
    14
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    We just bought a Toyota Camry Hybrid for a few hundred under invoice (around $3k off MSRP), and the fleet sales mgr told us he would no longer sell a Prius for under MSRP (and he expected the salesmen on the floor to get premiums over MSRP of a thousand $ or more).

    Strange how they were so willing to deal on a TCH but not a Prius. I guess everyone thinks "Prius" when they see rising gas prices.
     
  9. sandman

    sandman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    277
    32
    0
    Location:
    kentucky
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Red McCombs Toyota they where correct in the dealer price for a 1224 it is $20,022 and the dealer price for package #4 $2,322 they where also correct on the floor mats (rip off in my opion) dealer price- $126. also the $680 is a Freight charge I think everyone pays this..

    Base Vehicle Holdback of $449 (never heard of this)
    Finance Reserve Charge $224 (never heard of this)
    Destination is $715 (never heard of this)

    $118 dealer prep fee (this could be legit)
    $184 title fee (live in Ky so not sure on that one)

    I would think a fair price would be 24,500-25,000 for a 2008 package #4 prius(thats out the door)
     
  10. thebigtman

    thebigtman New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    6
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Thanks everyone. I'm continuing my search!

    Just to be clear, the OTD price INCLUDING 6.25% sales tax was $26,976. Tax is about $1580 if I remember correctly.

    As I said, I'm going to continue looking. Wish me luck!
     
  11. okiebutnotfrommuskogee

    okiebutnotfrommuskogee Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    1,813
    15
    0
    Location:
    Tulsa, OK
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    If you want to check for a car in Tulsa, Try where we have bought two Toyotas, Jim Norton Toyota. We have bought both of them from Rob Loethen. PM me and I will give you his cell number, the dealership number and fax no. Their web address is Jim Norton Toyota Tulsa Oklahoma Toyota Dealer Tulsa Toyota Tulsa Oklahoma Toyota Dealer Tulsa Toyota Dealer Toyota Dealer Tulsa Toyota New Toyota Used Toyota Preowned Toyota Pre-Owned Toyota Certified Toyota Cars Toyota Trucks Toyota SUV’s Toyota

    The problem is that Prii are in sort of a short supply. Their website only shows three in their stock at this time. When we bought ours last year they had 23 of them in their stock.

    2008 Prius 5 Door Hatchback Black Hybrid E-CVT $26,704
    2008 Prius 5 Door Hatchback Touring Magnetic Gray Metallic Hybrid E-CVT $30,606
    2008 Prius 5 Door Hatchback Magnetic Gray Metallic Hybrid E-CVT $26,704

    You can check them out on their site.
     
  12. rodbuster

    rodbuster Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    7
    0
    0
    Location:
    Naperville, Ill.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    I got quoted $200 under "invoice" for a 2008 package 6 here in Chicagoland. The price worked out to $25660 plus $150 doc fee, tax and plates. The total out the door was $27664.78. If other forum members are getting better prices, I would sure like to know where. Even if I had to drive a little, it may be worth it. I will tell you this, the dealers around here seem to have at least 20 of these units in stock (per dealer), but yet they will tell you how "hot" they are. I went to some of these dealers a couple of months ago, and I can't believe how many more cars they have in stock now, compared to then. I ask about the large inventory and they tell me "wait untill gas hits $4.00 per gallon, then they will be selling like crazy". I take that with a grain of salt,it seems to me that the more expensive that gas gets, the less money people will have to spend.
    Where are the really hot deals to be had?
    Thank you, rodbuster.
    Also list price was $27685.
     
  13. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    7,028
    1,116
    0
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Toyota pays the dealer to prep the car. Tell the dealer "don't touch the car" and save $118. The sleazeball is just trying to double dip.
     
  14. rpiereck

    rpiereck Regenerator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    289
    3
    0
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    JimN is bsolutely right, read my first post on this:

    DELIV/PROC/HAND 715.00 <--- what the heel is this? Delivery Prep? They get their lowest paid employee to remove some plastic sheets, attach some fuses, air the tires, wash and vaccum your car and it costs $715 for 2 hours of work? BULLSHIT! The poor guy made maybe $10/hr, and you're paying $357.50 per hour. Tell them to knock this off or you walk out.
     
  15. rwhoyle

    rwhoyle Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    227
    2
    0
    Location:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Tim,

    I have sent you a PM containing the dealer and contact info you requested. Good Luck and let us know how you come out!!