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Custom extended seat rails group order

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by problemchild, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. Hybrid Effects

    Hybrid Effects Junior Member

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    Well if the car does explode if the seat rails survive you could resell them.:doh:

    I am not trying to stir crap up or anything.

    I think this post provides some insight into this matter for both parties.
     
  2. mrblaise

    mrblaise Go Lakers!!

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    And how do you know this? Listen, I'd love to have more leg room. But, I'm not going to compromise my safety to achieve that end. All I'm saying is that buying an unknown product from an unknown entity is a huge risk. If you don't mind compromising your safety and the welfare of your family; so be it. I would rather go with the company that is in this type of business and has done this type of thing before. Like the company that alters vehicles for the pro sports players or handicapped individuals. I believe the safety factor there would be much higher than someone you don't know who was recommended by someone you don't know. This person's product may be fine ... yet it's a risk.

     
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I'm not looking to sue anyone and I never wanted the thread to go that direction. But asking simple questions about how such a rail might affect the safety of the car including the security of the seat itself and the functioning of the air bag really doesn't seem like it should stir up such snide remarks.

    When one responds in that manner it makes me think you're being defensive because you never considered those factors and are at a loss for an intelligent and informed response.

    And way off topic...to the guy who thinks that wearing bike helmets is somehow restricting our children, give me your phone number... next time some kids brains are draining out on one of my trauma tables and I get to tell the parents their kid is dead but might have had minimal or no injury at all if they'd been wearing a helmet I'll give you a call and let you explain how it was a good thing that they didn't make their kid wear the helmet. While your limited exposure to biking injuries might be free of serious injuries my experience with them has clearly shown that they save lives, prevent serious brain injury and save kids and parents a lot of grief.
     
  4. problemchild

    problemchild New Member

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    Unfortunately a few bad apples have ruined it for all of us.

    My friend who "WAS" going to make the rails was monitoring this thread. He called me one night and mentioned pregnant widows in the courtroom crying over their long lost tree hugging prius driver husbands and uttered something about 50 million dollar lawsuit in a Berkley courtroom.

    I hope you guys are happy. No rails will be made now not even for my car.
     
  5. mrblaise

    mrblaise Go Lakers!!

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    I am happy, and I agree with efusco. Simple questions were asked and they were met with snide remarks. That's surely not someone I'd care to do business with. Calling me a bad apple? Why? Because other people and I asked questions? Shame on me ... :violin: Like I said before, I've handled cases where people were seriously injured because of failed car seats. Hopefully a few lives were saved because we bad apples dared to ask a few questions that for some reason could not be answered.


     
  6. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    I'm happy that your friend made an informed decision.

    I'm sorry we burst your bubble by pointing out that you have a responsibility to make sure the product you are trying to sell to others is safe.
     
  7. Boo

    Boo Boola Boola Member

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    Safety has been my primary criterion for choosing a car for the past 22 years, e.g., I used to drive a Volvo. So I think I share people's concerns about the safety issues that have been raised here -- the quality and construction of the product, confidence in the designer/fabricator of the product, and effect on airbag performance.

    But I'm having a little trouble understanding the airbag issue. I don't see how moving the seat back 1-4 inches will affect the performance of the front airbags. On this issue, I think what nyprius (the only PriusChatter I remember who extended his seat rails) has said makes total sense to me:

    Anyways, for those interested, here's nyprius' entire post which includes a good description of the actual modification:

    Anyways, good luck to all.
     
  8. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Hi Tom

    Although I agree with NYPrius reasoning that there is a safety margin designed into the airbag system, none of us know what that safety margin is. Galaxee's point about the timing of the airbag deployment is a very good one. Unfortunately, there isn't a practical way to test this.

    At least NYPrius knows about the risks and he has decided to accept them in return for the additional legroom. And he had the extension done by a company with experience in this type of modification.

    I also modified my seat to lower it, but I don't recommend anyone else do this. I believe that my modification is as strong as the original seat, but I have no way to test and verify this is true. I would not attempt to sell this modification to others.
     
  9. Boo

    Boo Boola Boola Member

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    Hi Dogfriend,

    Yeah, I still don't see it re the airbags. But I just realized that there may be another safety issue: I wonder what effect moving the seat back 3 inches would have on the operation of the shoulder belt's pretensioning and auto locking systems? I seem to recall that in the early 90's when Saab came out with a remodeled 900, the first model year's crash test results were terrible -- something like near certain death or major injury for both front seat occupants. Saab and everyone else was shocked, given Saab's long history of safety innovations and engineering. My recollection is that Saab figured out that the problem involved the location of the shoulder belt mount, and was remedied completely (the crash test results changed from worst to best) by merely moving the mount a few inches.
     
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Adding a 2-3" extension is "probably" not any danger....neither for the air bag nor the pretensioning. It's unlikely that a well built/welded extension would break in an accident. But the safety stuff is not something that should be considered lightly.

    If I'm a bad apple for suggesting it deserves to be addressed then I'll take that label happily. I guess it's easy to pretend this stuff isn't an issue if you don't see it every day, but I do. The Prius has proven itself to be exceptionally safe in serious accidents and most people walk away unharmed from moderate accidents. If a 3" extension changed that to dying in serious accidents and moderate to severe injuries in moderate accidents that's a big deal.

    Asking how airbags will be affected isn't trying to spoil anything. I WANT a rail extension...but I want it to be safe. I want to know that the person making it isn't just a dude that's good with metal working in his backyard shed. I want to know that the metal used is stronger than the OEM part. I want to know that my airbags will deploy properly. This has nothing to do with law suits...I'm not that kind of person. If I choose to buy a product like this then I'm happy to assume the risk. But I'm going to do all I can to assess and minimize that risk before I decide to purchase so that I'm making an informed decision with a quantifiable risk.
     
  11. Boo

    Boo Boola Boola Member

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  12. montenido

    montenido A 2 Prius household

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    Count me in for the extensions, drop or no drop.

    Thanks,
     
  13. Boo

    Boo Boola Boola Member

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    There's nothing left to be counted in in.
     
  14. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog C'Mere Sheepie!

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    Dr Efusco I applaud you for your insight and sense. I want the seats back a couple of inches also, but only if safe and certified.

    ..and I don't hug trees. Just my wife!
     
  15. nyprius

    nyprius Member

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    Re the safety of the airbag and seat belts if you move the seats back three inches, I don't think it's an issue. These things must be over-engineered. They need to handle very heavy or very light people who might have the seat in the same position.

    I am very happy I moved my seats back three inches. I would definitely do this mod again when I get a new Prius. Although by then, I hope Toyota realizes US drivers are generally taller than Japanese drivers, and thus give Prius's the same leg room as US auto makers provide.

    The mod I had done by New England Wheels is as strong or stronger than the OEM set up. My one remaining complaint about the car is seat height. It is not possible to lower the seat by changing the seat rails (unless you cut out some of the floor). The only way to lower the seat is by making mods within the seat structure above the rails. If somebody figures out how to do this, please let us know.

    Moving my seat back three inches did lower it a little since the rails angle slightly down toward the rear. The further back the seat is, the lower it is. However, I would still like the seat to be at least one inch lower.

    For tall people considering moving the seats back, I suggest you do it. My car is so much more comfortable with the extra legroom.
     
  16. auricchio

    auricchio Member

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    Thinking of lawsuits, I've thought of them from another angle.

    Suppose I have modified, untested seat rails and I get T-boned or in a serious accident caused by another driver.

    His insurance company would almost certainly try to decline payment to me for injuries. They'd hold me responsible for compromising the car's safety. How do I fight them? It's impossible to prove the seat rails didn't magnify the injuries.

    I still crave a two-inch extension, but I'm with the others when it comes to safety.
     
  17. nyprius

    nyprius Member

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    If the mod is done by someone who regularly does seat modifications for handicap people and others, it shouldn't be a problem. The Mod on my seat makes the seat stronger, if anything. If you look at the supports coming up from the seat rails, you see the metal is much thinner than the rail steel. Obviously the seat is designed to shear above the seat rails, while the rails remain in place. Modifying the rails shouldn't affect accident performance, assuming the rails are just as strong as before the mod.

    If what you're saying is true, that would mean handicap people who have their cars modified are uninsurable. I'm sure that's not the case. If a reputable retrofitter does the work, the insurance is probably just as strong as if there was no mod.
     
  18. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I accomplished lowering the back of both front seats on about 1.5", I posted some pictures on a previous post :
    http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-modifications/36162-possible-lower-drivers-seat.html#post513193 , replay #8.
    It can be done and it is as strong or better that the OEM seat structure, requires some patience and the right tools.
    For my needs, lowering the seat and raising the front edge of it for leg support, give me a much better and comfortable ride
     
  19. genenkay

    genenkay New Member

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    I just got my '05 Prius yesterday (April 1st) and complained today. Someone sent me this link. I was excited. Sorry the opportunity is gone. If we throw tiredness into the equation from poor seating position the extensions may be a safety factor. Frankly I would take the risk if it looked like a professional job.

    Gene from Louisiana
     
  20. genenkay

    genenkay New Member

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    If anyone goes ahead with this extender project for themself and could send a measured drawing and photograph or two I would be happy to send them a contribution. Hey, I ride a motorcycle, I am used to living with a little risk. I always say it is better to prevent an accident than just stack the odds in your favor of surviving one. :rolleyes:

    Gene in Louisiana