Volkswagen to Introduce 70 mpg Diesel-Electric Hybrid Golf

Cost has to be a major issue with a diesel hybrid meeting Tier 2 bin 5 emission standards. A diesel powerplant has an incremental cost to gasoline, meeting PM and NOx gasoline emissions and OBD standards for diesel is another cost increment, and a hybrid with NiMH batteries has to be another huge cost increment altogether. Toyota has said that they would not produce a diesel version of the Prius for those reasons. I don't think VW has done the either diesel emissions or hybrid part yet and now they want to combine the two most expensive technologies at once?

Good luck if there isn't a $8K cost differential to their baseline gasoline vehicle. Not only that, but given their reputation for quality based on Consumer Reports, the vehicle could be an expensive flop. If a hybrid design is not executed correctly, it won't be successful. Right now, the cost differential of diesel to gasoline wipes out the cost effectiveness of diesel fuel economy.

And people said it took long for the Prius to be cost effective.

 

I just think the more options the better. Each might find it's own market.

Lots of people went back and forth in regards to the HCH vs the Prius, yet the HCH is a pretty neat package, provides really good gas mileage and actually less emissions than the Prius.

The more people who use hyper economical cars with low emissions for their commute vs gas guzzlers the better. Sure the Diesel hybrid will have its challenges and pros/cons, but I would rather have it actually produced and available vs some pie in the sky ideas that never seem to realize.

 

ok
so petrol cars are not good for human longs? because the pm is smaller!?
ok i am going to buy a diesel

i am talking about the enormous leg room in the back of the prius thats 1 size car bigger then the prius is.

 

And... these are still estimates.

Nobody has yet really tested the cars and therefore these estimates are very optimistic.

I'll bet that when it will be tested it will be in the 50s US or 60s UK.

 

Will this be able to run on biodiesel?

 

When VW made its resurgence here in the states in the mid 90's, that is when the quality went down. I bought my wife a 2001 VW Beetle 1.8T, absolutely the least reliable P.O.S. I've ever owned. Everything is always needing fixed on it. Here is a list of things that I have had to replace because of failure on and it doesn't even have 100,000 miles yet.
Water Pump (impeller was made of plastic broke into 3 pieces)
Coolant sensor
Mass Air Flow Sensor
Various rubber vaccuum hoses
and to top it all off the Transmission completely failed at 80,000 miles

This car is a constant battle you fix it, car runs great and its the funnest little car to drive. A few weeks go by and the Check Engine Light comes on with a new set of problems. If you hit the VDub forums I frequently see people say buying a engine code reader should be a requirement. The guy at my autozone knows when he sees me to just go ahead and grab his code reader.

VW is probably a great car in Europe and I do actually believe that it is a very well engineered car, but here in the states they have cut every corner and filled it with cheap parts. Apparently they have studied the North American GM playbook.

 

Let's say that Eu expectations are much lower than US expectations.

You say that you beetle was a constant battle, but made a listing of issues in 100.000 miles. Show that to a European and the reply would be "that's it? that was a good car!"

Just to give you an idea, our leading car magazine test tried a turbo diesel for 100.000 km (62.000 miles). This is their log (in Km)
2225 horn hard to operate
4810 rear door gasket detaches
5680 squeaks insine and noises when braking
7390 while manouvering noise from the steering wheel.
12810 side windows noisy, speedometer stuck
35500 vibrations steering wheel
50300 driver's seat wobbly
51790 Noisy seteering wheel, added 1 kg oil.
51900 oil leakage from the turbo
52200 Turbo OK, air filter support broke.
56000 diesel tube detachd from filter.
56115 fused bulb
57940 fused bulb
59040 60.000 km maintenance eliminated steering noise.
59160 vibrations from wheel, glued door gasket.
62990 noises from left dashboard
63120 With "city" function, less noise from direction.
64430 part of climate control not lit up.
65050 knocks on fron suspension on bumpy roads.
67630 vibration steering wheel increase.
70700 changed steering motor.
72250 climate control in total darkness.
77850 changed steering box
81840 noisy driver's seat.
82350 noisy accelerator pedal
83350 noisy air conditioner
89450 rear doors difficult to open
90350 maintenance 90.000
90450 noises in air conditioner and throttle still there.
90500 climate control still dark
90850 gas guage foes not reach the F mark
90900 left read door does not open from the outside.

Now you can imagine how "spoilt" I feel with a Prius....

 

Individual Vehicle Search | Green Vehicle Guide | US EPA

I'm confused. It appears the Civic Hybrid and Prius are dead even in all but Greenhouse gases, where the Prius is lower, due to the slightly better MPG. What am I missing? I chose Pennsylvania and 2008. Is it different in other states? Different model years?

More low emission, high efficiency choices. That I am not confused about! Bring 'em all on, they will sell. I've come to realize not everyone likes the Prius...not everyone likes the Civic Hybrid...and not everyone likes diesel anything. So, to each their own. So long as it reduces consumption AND reduces emissions. I won't even go the GM hybrid rant...

 

ummm....did you read the article?

VW ranks 16th of 30 something in small cars

 

That was three years ago.

BTW over here those are NOT small cars.

 

Seems they have updated it. I looked at the actual test certificates.

HCH
http://www.epa.gov/dis/display_file.jsp?docid=15517&flag=1

Prius
http://www.epa.gov/dis/display_file.jsp?docid=15676&flag=1

Either way the differences are marginal, but I think we are in agreement on the main point that more econimical and cleaner options are only a good thing.

 

FYI- the "Prius" link shows GS450H and 400H data. Though, those numbers as far as pollution goes are remarkable!

PS Found the Prius results (.pdf attached)

 

Don't wanna be a spoilsport, but the last page says Lexus GS 450H :focus:

This is a bit better and cleaner than the HCH.

http://www.epa.gov/dis/display_file.jsp?docid=15665&flag=1

 

Oops, clicked on the wrong link

My point still is arguing about a HCH or Prius in this regard is futile as both are pretty good.

Example of a bad alternative is a Malibu Hybrid vs a Camry Hybrid (27 vs 34 MPG combined), and the Malibu has 5.29 pounds of smog forming pollution vs 0.99 for the Camry.

So if the Diesel hybrid can produce clean emissions and low fuel consumption it might work for some, and to the benefit of all.

 

Oh i only listed the catastrophic problems where the car was undrivable. I didn't mention all the little things. In any case this VW 1.8T Beetle is a POS, but I think I finally got it up and running the way its supposed to.

 

It is a shame that VW quality tanked in the mid to late 90's. I had an '86 Golf (1.8L) that I would get about 35-36 mpg with. I loved driving it. I got 180k miles out of it before retiring it. Then I got a '95 Golf (2.0L). Got about 31-32 mpg with that. I loved driving that too. I got 270k miles on that before getting the Prius. I didn't have any major quality issues with either of them. But I think just dogded that bullet. I know lots of folks who got VW's in the late 90's who had all sorts of crazy problems with them.

The fuel efficiency is what drove me to get the Prius. And I'm very happy with it. But I must admit that I do miss the VW handling. The driving experience is different. Switching from a Golf to a Prius is kind of like turning in your hockey skates for golf shoes. They're both sports. Just different.

 

i dont think that many people are really dissing VW for very poor quality... but lets face it... all we have is talk of a a vehicle that MIGHT challenge for the best option.

right now, the Prius is #1...so why settle for #2...even if its a close 2nd...its still second... and personally, i dont see many cars that are all that close..

i feel i made the right and BEST choice, and after nearly 4 years, i have seen or experienced nothing that would have changed my mind

 

70 mpg with diesel converts to about the same amount of oil barrels per gallon the Prius consumes. I do like Golfs and how they handle. If they include some nice options this might be a good alternative to the Prius. However, I doubt this cars will show in the US anytime soon.

The real comparison is with the american hybrids. Aren't the Malibu hybrid engineers embarrassed by the mileage achieved by Toyota and now VW?

Cheers!

 

My wife and I just got rid of our 99 Passat - good riddance! Lots of problems and very expensive to repair. I will NEVER own another VW, I don't care what kind of mileage they get!