Traction Control

I sure hope not.

pilot spatial disorientation

 

I'm going to be honest. If Toyota doesn't fix the traction control problem by the time I'm looking at replacing my '07 Prius in 2012 I'm probably not going to go with a Prius agian. I personally consider the TC in the Prius to be not only a design flaw but an outright hazard. There have been times when I’m going through an intersection where opposing traffic doesn’t stop and I hit a patch of gravel and loose my forward momentum. Yes I clear the intersection with plenty of room to spare but its closer then I care to be. And then there is winter. I got stuck in a damn parking lot of a rest area in Wisconsin 3 weeks ago. I sat there and rocked my car back and forth as best I could but I ended up needing to get help from the SUVers in about 3†of snow. Frankly the TC has seriously soured my enthusiasm of this car and Toyota. I have not picks about the rest of the car but they are just that. . . minor stuff. Frankly I’m going to NEED complete and utter reassurance that this issues has been resolved before I go near another Prius ever again. Now that being said in the next 2 months I’m going to replace the tires on my car. They aren’t bad yet but I’m at 38K (Got my car in October of ’06.) and they are getting down there but I’d hate to imagine how bad it would be with bad tires. If solid all weather tires makes it more palatable I’m writing Toyota a couple letters. At minimum I don’t think the stock tires should be placed on cares sold north of Iowa.

 

There are a small number of us, mostly I had thought with '04 - '05 models, who experience serious problems with the overly aggressive traction control. In my particular case, I am experienced in driving in snow and ice, with and without snow tires. I love my Prius but consider it a hazard to myself and others to drive it in snow and/or ice conditions so I have decided to park it at those times.

I wish I were one of the many on PC who state that their Prius is the best car they have ever owned for that kind of driving. Well, hopefully I'll be able to say that about my next Prius.

 

Well, at least you *could* rock your Prius. When mine bogs down, that's it. Nothing, Nada, Kaput. Doesn't matter if I use gentle pedal pressure or floor it, the car feels like it's trying to strain but that's it

Your comment about tires is spot on. Remember, I'm now running extremely aggressive studded Goodyear Nordic winter tires from Canadian Tire. This is the same tire as the Goodyear Ultra Grip 500 sold in Europe. A fantastic tire on icy/slushy roads and great snow traction.

But once the Prius bogs down, forget about it. That alone probably influenced my decision to purchase the FJ Cruiser last year. No regrets there, if anything it reinforces just how a PROPERLY ENGINEERED Trac should work!

 

I'm going to guess that was a rear wheel drive car? An Aunt of mine had an '82 sedan here in Winnipeg, that thing was rear wheel drive. A fun car and built like a brick s***house

 

I wasn't talking about flying the airplane I was talking about while you're stuck, bored to tears as a passenger.

 

Gotcha. Well, the passenger could always set fire to the car and use it as a distress signal

 

We have a 2006 Prius with the GY (#1) package. It is very dangerous to drive in snow, which we have a lot of in Wisconsin because it cuts power to the wheels as soon as any slippage is encountered, the same thing others are complaining of. That may be ok in the rain, but when driving in several inches of snow, there is ALWAYS slippage. Our old Chevy Cavalier gets around in the snow just fine. You just get on the gas and those front wheels just start chewing their way through the snow. In the same scenario with our Prius, you get on the gas and it dies leaving you helplessly waiting for someone to slam into you and kill you. It is not a fit car to drive in snow. If no one has been killed yet, they will be. Pull out into an intersection, drive train dies and you wait for that big suburban to slam into your door at 50 mph. This is VERY dangerous.

Toyota saying that's how it is supposed to work and refusing to do anything about it is something they're going to regret that when the lawsuits start. Deliberately engineering such a dangerous design makes them fully culpable. It's inexcusable.

 

That's how my 2004 Prius reacts to bogging in a bit of snow. Especially if you run aggressive studded tires like I do in winter, a wee bit of minor wheelspin is quite beneficial to clawing your way through snow with ice underneath

What I don't understand is that my 2007 FJ Cruiser clearly does *not* kill the power when it starts to bog down. I can leave it in 2wd until the front bumper is pushing snow. The rear brakes will alternate left/right in an attempt to find the wheel with the most traction, but it *never* kills all the power

 

useless on slippery grass lawn too
slightest hint of wheel slippage and it gives up
normal car will let wheels spin enough for something to catch and get you moving

I cant believe motors will fry
- we're only talking about reasonable revs no higher than out on the road

 

Yeah, makes no sense whatsoever to me either, because: (1) revs no higher than out on the road, and (2) if Toyota can program the computer to cut the revs/power, it can just as easily program the computer to limit the revs/power.

 

cant we make sticky's with info like thisone?

 

how do you switch it back on

 

You have to power off, then power back on. Like rebooting a computer.

Very convenient in traffic, no?

I just don't deal with it anymore. With the studded tires, I'm fine on ice and moderate snow levels. Any deep drifted snow - we had plenty of that the last two blizzards - I just go out in the FJ.

In 2wd

Same as out at the hobby farm, like right now. Between the logging operation 5 km from my place, and the nasty strong winds yesterday, my Prius would have been in trouble barely off the highway

I'm still planning on driving a 2008 Prius to determine if the Trac issue really has been solved. I'm going to guess that if there really is an issue, it will show up on the OEM tires at icy intersections

 

My 2005 Prius has major problems with the traction control cutting power at the slightest wheel slippage, immobilizing the car on hills that toher cars are driving up without problems. It IS dangerous, and I would never recommend a prius to anyone due to this dangerous feature. There needs to be a way to toggle this feature off when it becomes a problem. I put better tires on the car and this has been helpful, but it has not eliminated the problem and tire upgrades are incapable of "fixing" this defective design--although they do lessen its frequency. There may well be a reason to limit the slippage to protect the drive system, but no one can tell me it has to cut all power to do this. The system needs to be reprogrammed to allow limited slippage, or to prevent total withdrawl of power to the drive wheels. I'm betting this could be fixed with a software upgrade if Toyota cared. In the meantime, I cheerfully tell all my NE Ohio friends who inquire that the prius is a good car but NOT one I would recommend they purchase due to what in my opinion is a dangerous defect. And then there are the fog lights that only work with the headlights on--another bonehead bit of "engineering".

 

I agree, my '04 the first winter with it, before the snow tires arrived, I just about got myself killed in an intersection. Gas pedal to the mat, car refusing to move, oncoming traffic trying to stop in time. This was at Bishop Grandin/Waverly, I was trying to turn eastbound onto Bishop

Again, the studded tires really help and I no longer have to worry about that. Except deep snow, then the car shuts down. It feels like it's trying to strain, but the Trac light is blinking and nothing else happens. Impossible to rock out

As far as the "foglights" they are purely for decoration. Completely useless

 

Who taught you to flatten the throttle when you have wheel spin?

I was taught to use light throttle in slippery conditions.

Is it a North American thing? I have see a lot of people say they push the gas pedal to the floor when the traction control cuts in, odd really. A soon as power comes back the tyres will spin and the traction control will come back in.

Try easing on the power and see if that works any better.

Tell me to shut up and I don't know what I'm talking about if you like, I have never seen snow but I have driven on ice and wet clay.

 

Well, I’m going to try to explain this again:

As a lad I learned how to drive in a November. So I was raised in real winter conditions, and was taught to pretend there was an egg between the gas pedal and my foot. That has served me well all my years, until I got my Prius

December of 2004. Mild weather ended abruptly with a major blizzard and cold temps, so in addition to the snow there was also a layer of ice. I’m at the intersection of Waverly and Bishop Grandin, I was southbound on Waverly and was waiting to turn left to head east on Bishop. I was first in line at the left turn lane

Left turn arrow turns green, and I gently press the gas. The Prius inches forward then stops right in the middle of the intersection, between the westbound Bishop passing lane and left turn lane. Cars behind start honking. I press the gas pedal harder. Nothing. A car that was behind me roars around me, driver honking and making a rather famous gesture with his middle digit. Strange how that old car had no trouble roaring around me

I press the gas pedal harder. Nothing, car feels like it is straining, but no forward movement, no wheelspin, just nothing. Left turn light turns yellow

Uh oh

Left turn light turns red. Now the northbound cars on Waverly have to drive around me, drivers angrily honking and gesturing. By this time, I’ve got the gas pedal right to the mat. I think it’s rather instinctive with traffic bearing down on you, to floor it to make the gawd*** car MOVE. Except for some reason my Prius is helpless in a few inches of churned up snow

Now the Waverly lights turn to red, and the left turn lights on Bishop Grandin east and westbound turn green. Except since I’m right in the middle of the bloody intersection, none of the cars can make their left turns. Lots of angry horn honking and many gestures. At this point I’m trying R-D-R-D in an attempt to rock the gawd*** thing, but nothing

Now the lights turn green on Bishop and the westbound cars are forced to drive around me, except for a transport truck that obviously can’t go around. So the driver lays on the air horn. Constantly. In the meantime, it doesn’t matter if I don’t press the gas pedal or floor it, nothing happens. This was on the factory tires, my winter tires had been backordered. But most of the cars around me were on “all season†tires and they didn’t appear to have any problems

Oh wait, the car wants to finally move. Barely inching along, I finally get onto the westbound Bishop. There is a Toyota dealer near the intersection of Bishop and Waverly, I was very tempted at that point to drive to that dealer, pour distillates over my Prius, set it on fire, and tell Toyota “keep it.â€

Look, I’m not trying to insult you. It’s just that a handful of Prius cars, especially the 2004 models, have a problem with hypersensitive Trac. Mine appears to be one of them.

My Prius was also one of a handful that experienced the Stall. I was in traffic, southbound on Kenaston, and as luck would have it I stalled near the main Dr Hook tow yard, the largest tow operator in Manitoba. So I didn’t have to wait very long for a flatbed tow

Folks have suggested all I had to do was power cycle the car 3 times, and the gas motor would have restarted. Ok, just how was I supposed to know that? Is that documented somewhere in the owner handbook?

I think it’s very unreasonable to expect the average driver to automatically know how to respond to an unusual situation. In the case of the Stall, is the average Prius driver supposed to know the power cycle routine? In the case of an aggressive Traction control system killing all power, is it best just to blame the driver and exonerate the Prius?

There are also a relative handful of Prius cars out there that exhibit alarming highway tracking instability. Mine was borderline until a proper alignment and zero point calibration of the steering. Some Prius drivers have had to sell their cars, rather than chance a highway instability turning into a tragedy. It was also easy to blame those drivers too

On the issue of Trac, by running aggressive studded winter tires, my Prius is great on ice, and good on mild snow. Once the snow is deeper than 5 inches, especially if churned up by other cars, forget about it

I was leery buying my FJ Cruiser as it also has standard Traction control. However, I went for a drive with snow still on the ground. Even with the crap Grandtrek tires on it, no issues. With 4 studless Toyo Open Country G-02 Plus winter tires, my FJ can easily push snow with the front bumper, in 2wd.

So I can easily and readily compare the Trac of my 2004 Prius to my 2007 FJ Cruiser. There is no question in my mind now, if there is heavy snow in the city, or even a hint of snow at my hobby farm, I take the FJ