1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Grill Blocking Summary Article

Discussion in 'Knowledge Base Articles Discussion' started by efusco, Nov 21, 2007.

  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,193
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The Prius’s small aluminum block internal combustion engine tends to lose heat very quickly. During the first 5 to 20 minutes (depending on ambient temperature), the car’s mileage will take a hit due to the high heat loss. Several PriusChat posters have been able to suggest and prove a valuable tip for retaining this heat better and preventing the engine from cooling to quickly. This tip is to block either or both of the upper and lower grills on the Prius. The purpose of this article is to provide an overview of some of the more notable or valuable PriusChat postings on the subject.

    There have been a couple of very good threads on PriusChat about grill blocking. The "original" thread that discusses this topic was one started in December 2006 by Tony Schaefer entitled First Morning with a Blocked Grill. There are discussions within the thread regarding the reasons for blocking a grill, the benefits of doing so, warnings about temperature extremes and directions for doing the "grill blocking" yourself. Along with these directions you'll find pictures of the end result for a few different ways of accomplishing the task. There is even a graph showing one poster's claim that the grill blocking has resulted in a 4% increase in MPG even with a very short commute.

    A quick observation of note: PriusChat Member usbseawolf2000 records the same observation I have noted: The grill blocking, particularly the blocking of both the top and bottom grills, will cause the car’s thermometer to mis-represent the outside tempature . This difference will vary depending on the installation and how much of the grill has been blocked, but the number showing up on the MFD screen is likely to be as much as 3 or 4 degrees higher than the ambient outside temparater.

    Here are some example photographs (and a video) from the thread:

    1. The basic pipe insulation used by Fire Engineer (Wayne) and Tony Schaefer.
    2. A view of the compression-fit insulation pulled back from the grill -- to show how to install (insert) the insulation in the grill.
    3. A photo of the Doc's (Efusco's) version of grill blocking. This one uses a different type of pipe insulation, and also has a more complete cover of the grill. Efusco's version uses the full diameter of the pipe insulation. The whole piece covers the grill and is held in place with zip ties.
    4. Another installation like Efusco's, only this time the pipe insulation is held in place with the adhesive that comes on the material. This is a clean look with no zip ties. The poster (usbseawolf2000) also includes a [ame="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4774360504510051993"]link to a video[/ame] of his installation. Efusco offers a warning that the adhesive will leave a residue that proves difficult to remove from the grill and/or bumper.
    5. Hobbit's version (or at least a link to it) in which the blocking is behind the front grill.
    6. Another modification of the style shown earlier by Efusco. This one uses zip ties on the top grill just like Efusco, but on Boo Gas the bottom grill's zip ties are set up so that the pipe insulation can be adjusted to allow more or less air flow. The look on the bottom grill is more like a quilted blanket (IMHO).
    7. The Combo Method: This one uses a compression fit on the upper grill and the full-cover, zip-tied method for the lower grill. This poster started with the pipe insulation used by Tony Schaefer but switched to the pipe insulation used for covering air conditioning pipes. This other insulation is a different type of foam that is more flexible at lower temperatures. It also is a bit darker in color and has a smoother finish. It also was used by Efusco.
    8. The "Cut-to-Fit" look -- In this one the poster ("JimN") cut the pipe insulation into 8 separate pieces for the upper grill. This gives a very clean look.
    9. The latest look. :rolleyes: Whereas JimN got a very clean look by cutting pieces to fit, I just cut the pipe insulation to fit (tightly) lengthwise. By using the foam for air conditioners (darker and without the open cells showing) and cutting it down to narrow pieces fit to the whole length of the grill, I think the effect is to make the foam nearly disappear. This is my attempt to get it done after reading through the past year's worth of postings.

    More Information on the Pipe Insulation Used: Posters have offered differing opinions on the appropriate or “correct” size of the insulation to be used for blocking. I offer the following observations based on my experience:

    1. I prefer the darker pipe insulation, because it is more similar to the color of the grill and, therefore, tends to “disappear” more easily into the grill.
    2. I prefer the pipe insulation intended for use with air conditioners. This insulation should hold up better at lower temperatures, and it will retain flexibility better than the less expensive foams. I have purchased it in 6’ lengths.
    3. The thickness of the foam should not exceed 1/2”. The other option in size is the intended width of the pipe to be covered. I don’t believe you need to exceed insulation intended for anything larger than ½” diameter. This sized piece can be cut in half length-wise. The portion of the foam containing the adhesive can be trimmed off, and then the two long pieces may be cut in half. Each of these four quarters can be placed in to the bottom grill without any additional cutting.
    4. The best way to insert the foam is to center it in the grill, place the lower edge into the grill opening first, then while forcing the foam to be folded in half, push the top part of the foam piece into place. This completes the “compression” fit and will allow the pipe insulation to stay in place for a long time.

    I hope this helps you navigate a very long thread with LOTS of valuable information.

    I don't want to discount other, valuable threads. I just happened to have relied on the one noted above. Here are other threads to read:

    1. Blocking the grill
    2. My attempt at grill blocking This thread shows a VERY CLEAN installation of the pipe insulation. The poster refers to it as an "OEM" look -- and I see why. This is what I was looking to get, but I don't think I had the time and patience to accomplish this great look.
    3. Quick grill blocking question
    4. Sorry if this is stupid . . . but what is grill block? This is a newer, shorter thread that re-directs the reader, but offers some comments as well.

    Much of this information has been summarized in a Grille Blocking page in the User Guide established by John1701a. John is likely to keep this information updated.

    a priori
     
  2. billsrule7

    billsrule7 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    3
    0
    0
    Location:
    Carroll County, MD
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Thank you for the summary! It's very timely because I'm going to try to do it this weekend!

    p.s. - none of the links seems to be working
     
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,193
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(billsrule7 @ Nov 21 2007, 08:19 AM) [snapback]542365[/snapback]</div>
    Try them now...sorry about that.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Michgal007

    Michgal007 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    1,321
    98
    0
    Location:
    Macon, GA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(billsrule7 @ Nov 21 2007, 10:19 AM) [snapback]542365[/snapback]</div>
    Ditto.
     
  5. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    3,083
    407
    23
    Location:
    Chicagoland (West)
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(billsrule7 @ Nov 21 2007, 09:19 AM) [snapback]542365[/snapback]</div>
    I'm glad to offer the info, but I'm sorry to find the links are not working well. After all, the whole value of this post was to allow people to navigate this very long thread without getting lost. The good work was done in the original postings!

    I don't know why the links do not go to the direct posts. I've been successful with such links before, but it doesn't seem to be working now. Each post is showing me the same address as all other posts sharing the same page. For those more talented than I at PC navigation (there must be 40,000+ that qualify here!), please let me know how I can make the correction.

    In any event, you can still use this posting to find the information. When you follow the link, just scroll down through the page to which you've been linked. You'll there find the intended targets. How will you know? Each target is a photograph or a link to a video, so the options are rather limited.

    I hope to get the original post corrected and turned into something more useful. This is the time of the year to start blocking!

    a priori
     
  6. Prius 07

    Prius 07 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    715
    21
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(a priori @ Nov 21 2007, 11:26 AM) [snapback]542394[/snapback]</div>
    Hi Priori,

    The links work for me. Yes they take you back to the same article but it takes you back to the specific page where the referred information resides. It does not take you to the specific post for the given topic therfore you need to scroll your screen until you see it. As an example "the 4% increase in MPG" link in efusco's summary takes you to the page where that reference material is in the original post but you need to scroll the page on your screen until you see post #191.

    Hope this helps,
    Gabe
     
  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,766
    5,251
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    USER-GUIDE... new page for GRILLE BLOCKING

    That link above provides a draft version of what I intend to publish based on the sum of the knowledge shared here. (Thanks!)

    Remember that the USER-GUIDE has a much, much wider audience than the members of PriusChat. (There are over 13,000 downloads each month.) So how information is presented is a really big deal. I struggle to maintain a "for dummies" type approach, often limiting detail for the sake simplicity. In this case, the goal was to keep content to a single page.

    Let me know if I managed to cover the basics well enough.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Good stuff, thanks Evan (and a priori)
     
  9. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    3,000
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Nov 24 2007, 11:34 PM) [snapback]543833[/snapback]</div>
    John,

    I think you covered pretty much. You may want to break down the upper and lower blocking at various temp. I think you can leave the lower grill and block the upper grill at higher temp.

    I don't think going over 194 def F will do any damage. I believe 204 deg F is when the radiator fan comes on. Even then, the fan will prevent the damage.

    efusco,
    The video can be useful but I don't recommend using the adhesive to stick on the bumper. I was able to remove it when installing but after the winter was through, the adhesive became hard. I guess from the salt and cold? It may not happen with the adhesive that other companies use. Please add my waring to a priori's great summary.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,766
    5,251
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Nov 25 2007, 01:06 PM) [snapback]543985[/snapback]</div>
    There's a decent buffer available, but I've never witnessed it. 195 F is my peak observation with blocking. Some snow storm nightmare commute will likely change that...

    I just didn't want to leave any assumption opportunity, especially since overheat concern is often asked about.

    Mentioning the fan may do the trick.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Without reading through all of the extensive threads, I'd just like a quick guideline.

    Do I block the upper or lower first?

    At what temperature the first? At what temperature the second.

    I don't own a scangauge and have no intention of buying one so I have to go by the average daily temps as to when to start blocking and which grill to block first. I think Fire Engineer replied to that once but I don't think it was on any of the above links.
     
  12. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    19,011
    4,081
    50
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Nov 25 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]543997[/snapback]</div>
    The link John posted answers that for you :) Prius User-Guide ~ Grille Blocking
     
  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    3,000
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Nov 25 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]543993[/snapback]</div>
    It would be great to mention the "Outside Temp" on the MFD will become somewhat inaccurate. The temperature for me is showing higher than what I hear on the radio.
     
  14. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    3,083
    407
    23
    Location:
    Chicagoland (West)
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Thanks to Efusco, I've been able to get the summary reposted at the top of this thread. The new posting includes some of the comments and references provided in the first 10 or so replies in the thread. I also was able to get the links corrected (or perfected!) so that clicking on the links will take one directly to the post of interest.

    Again, thank you to Fire Engineer, Tony Schaefer and Efusco for providing such great material in the original thread.
     
  15. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,193
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hey guys...I have some key info I think is important for those blocking their grill.

    I recently converted from my old style of block (one piece of insulation for the top grill and one for the bottom) to blocking each individual slat for a nicer appearance. I drove today from my home to St. Louis. Temps were around 42F and the terrain is hilly..steep in areas but nothing dramatic by Ozarks standards. This is all interstate with a70mph speed limit...and that's what I had the CC set at.

    Previously I've driven this in similar conditions with grill blocking and temps for MG2 and the ICE were fine. Today, however, I got a little concerned. I actually witnessed MG2 temps climb slowly during the drive up to 114F sustained and ICE temps up to 204F spikes, but sustained closer to 197F.

    I think the individual slat blocking gives a much more complete obstruction to air flow...great thing for short, low ICE used (aka city) trips, not so great with high speed hill climbing continuous ICE trips. If temps had been closer to 50F without ability to monitor I'm seriously concerned I could have been in the danger zone for the temps.

    I stopped for gas with the intention of removing a block from one lower slat but actually forgot. When pulling out of the parking lot I remembered and stopped, backed up a few feet (25' max)...saw MG2 spike to 152F briefly!!! That's,by far, the highest I've ever seen it. I pulled the middle insulation strip for the lower slats and took off. MG2 temp quickly dropped and was down to 120 by the time I was off the exit and within a mile was below 110.

    From that point on ICE temps ranged b/w 182F and188F(trending lower), MG2 was in the 70s and 80s the rest of the trip. Actually those are cooler than I would have liked, but I didn't want to stop again. And I didn't want to risk higher temps.

    So, if you have your grill completely blocked with the individual slat technique and do NOT have a way to monitor temps be very very careful on highway/high speed/high demand driving conditions esp. if OAT is over40F...I used to say 50F was safe, but I would not reconsider under slightly more extreme conditions.
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,766
    5,251
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    December is over. The results are in. They were quite unspectacular. But then again, the holiday, vacation days, and temperature swings make it a month of variance anyway.

    The prior 4 years yielded December monthly averages of 46.5, 44.2, 43.7, 45.5 respectively. With a total of 6,948 miles, the resulting 45.0 MPG overall average should be representative of what to expect.

    So with grille blocking, I was hoping for more. Instead, it came to 44.1 MPG.

    The Multi-Display gives the impression that efficiency has been improved. But with so many variables at play, it sure is proving difficult to verify.

    I guess January will keep me quite curious.
    .
     
  17. tbirdhs

    tbirdhs Tbirdhs

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    77
    3
    0
    Location:
    River Edge. NJ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I just joined and picked up my car 2 days ago. I will be going to Home Depot very shortly for some pipe insul. I have not opened my hood yet (too Cold), but my salesman said something interesting that I have not see note of in my manuals or on line. He stated that there was an large insulated bottle that retains hot hotter for long periods of time. IS THIS TRUE. or was he blowing it out his a-hole. :eek:
     
  18. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    2,817
    187
    49
    Location:
    Chesterfield, VA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    For once, a salesman says something accurate. Woohoo!

    Yes, there is a "thermos" that keeps coolant warm, supposedly for up to three days after engine shutdown. Of course, the longer it sits, the less the benefit. After an overnight winter cold-soak, coolant temperatures upon startup are well below 100F.

    Welcome to PriusChat and Prius-dom!
     
  19. tbirdhs

    tbirdhs Tbirdhs

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    77
    3
    0
    Location:
    River Edge. NJ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Thanks for the input. I will open the hood later and look for it. The site is great, I hope to get more helpful hints in the next few days.
     
  20. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Welcome to PriusChat. Congrats on the Prius.

    I'm not sure if you'll be able to find the thermos. It's a rather bland looking silver thing. And I don't think it's labeled or anything. There's a picture of Hobbit holding one in the Hybridfest thread. Incidently, when you shut off your car and you hear all the new and strange sounds and clicks and whirrings, one of them is the sound of the Prius pumping the hot fluid into the thermos. People always ask about the sounds; that's one of them.

    Great first question. Keep it up.